Comic Boom - The Comics in Education Podcast with Claire Linney

In this episode Lucy is joined by writer, influencer and comics fan Claire Linney.

Claire Linney is a children’s author and book influencer. A lifelong reader she is passionate about advocating for more diverse representation in literature for children and teenagers. After working in marketing for over twenty years, she stumbled across Black Tudors: The Untold Story, which inspired her to want to bring the hidden stories of Black British history to life for the next generation. Her debut children's book Time Tub Travellers and the Silk Thief won the Ink Book Prize 2024, the Reader's Choice for The Diverse Book Awards 2025 and was Highly Commended in the Selfies Book Awards 2025

Claire's Recommendations from the episode:
Lightfall by Tim Probert
The work of Neill Cameron (catch Neill's episodes here and here)
Supanova by Chante Timothy
Blue, Barry and Pancakes by Dan Abdo, Jason Patterson
Squid Happens by Isabel Roxas
Rex Power by Ramzee and Claude T.C
Squire by Nadia Shammas and Sara Alfageeh (catch Sara's episode here)
Brooms by Jasmine Walls and Teo DuVall
Luna Boy by Jes and Cin Wibowo

Lucy's recommendations:
I love this part by Tillie Walden
Unicorn Boy by Dave Roman
Unfairies by Huw Aaron
Making Non-fiction Comics by Eleri Harris and Sarah Mirk

Follow Claire:
Insta: @claire_linney

Follow the podcast:
Insta: @comic_boom_podcast
Bluesky: @comicboom.bsky.social

Contact: comicboompodcast@gmail.com

Music by John_Sib from Pixabay

Transcript

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0:11

Hello, and welcome to Comic Boom, the comics and education podcast. If you're interested in hearing more about the crossover between comics and education, then this is the podcast for you. My name is Lucy Starbuck-Bradley, and each week I'll be joined by a fellow educator, an academic, a librarian, or a creator of comics to discuss their journey into comics and provide some inspiration to influence your practice, and hopefully shed some light on some titles you can bring into your libraries, classrooms, and onto your bookshelves at home too. today's guest is book influencer and author Claire Linney. You may have seen her on Instagram. I'm a big fan of Claire's content on there. She's passionate about the need for more stories that highlight people of African descent throughout British history and advocating for diverse representation in children's literature. Her series, Time Tub Travelers, aims to do just that as well, and they're brilliant reads, and we talk about that today. And of course, as you would expect for a guest on Comic Boom, Claire is a passionate reader of graphic novels. She'll be talking us through her top picks today and also talking about her experiences as a writer and a parent as well. Here's what Claire has to say.

Lucy SB 1:21

Hello, Clare. Welcome to Comic Boom

Claire Linney 1:23

Thank you so much for having me

Lucy SB 1:24

You are very welcome. I always start the podcast by, asking guests to tell us a little bit about their personal journey into comics. Everyone's different, discovers them at different age were they something that you got into as a child or something that you discovered later in life?

Claire Linney 1:42

I, I, dabbled very briefly with comics as a child. So my mom, who I love dearly and she's a legend, but was an English literary teacher. So, um, you know, was very keen on me reading the classics like Tess of the d'Urbervilles and less encouraging of me reading comic books. So I think I used to read comic strips like in magazines and newspapers. I think the Sunday Times used to have a pullout for kids, and this is the '80s, so this is a long time ago, and I think they had little comic strips.

Lucy SB 2:11

That, was it The Fun Day Times?

Claire Linney 2:12

Fun Day Times. Yes, Fun Day Times. So I remember the Fun Day Times. and then I used to have Calvin and Hobbes books. That was kind of, I loved the Calvin and Hobbes strips. but I don't think, I wasn't really encouraged to think of them as books. Like, they didn't really, they, they were something else. They were kind of just something for fun, like a distraction. No one ever gave me a comic book or a graphic novel. That wasn't, that wasn't a thing in my childhood. So I think it wasn't until I was, oh, probably in my late 20s, and it was probably to do with a guy that I was trying to date or fancied and was trying to be cool. And I'm, I'm sure it came from there. I don't know who, but I think I remember, I think I got Watchmen, graphic novel, which is kind of jumping straight in the deep end. Like, that's not, do you know what? That's not easing into it. Uh, and there's many things wrong with that graphic novel. It's problematic in so many ways, but I really loved it. I was like, oh, wow, this is... And I think it was the first time I'd sort of seen a whole narrative played out in that kind of, you know, in a comic rather than just like, 'cause the Calvin and Hobbes are great, but they're, they're short amuse-bouches.

Lucy SB 3:21

of four-panel strips or, yeah

Claire Linney 3:23

Yeah, so that was the first thing. And so I read all that, then I thought, "Oh, this is interesting." And I think that kind of, that was my gateway. And then I think I went to Maus by Art Spiegelman, which was completely the opposite. But, um, that really opened my eyes, so I was like, "Oh, okay, this is just a format. It's not like this is just superheroes." 'Cause I think there's a danger that people look at comics and they're like, "This is just, it's just superhero stuff. It's just Marvel. It's just DC." And I think having gone from Watchmen to Maus, I was like, "Oh, no, this is, like, historic. This is really serious historical fiction." Um, and Maus, for anyone who doesn't know, explores the Holocaust. And it's an amazing piece of work. And so I think from there I started to sort of look for,, kind of similar graphic novels. I was never hugely, but I would sort of dabble here and there. So I, like, I love Brian K. Vaughan and Fiona Staples. I loved Paper Girls. I'm very into Saga. But then I think when I started reading children's books, when I be- uh, started writing for children about five or six years ago, I think I then sort of naturally started to come across the odd middle grade graphic novel and young adult graphic novel, and that's when I got really hooked. Like, really whole shelf, spending large amounts of money hooked.

Lucy SB 4:33

Yeah, that's when it, that's when you know you're in trouble when you-

Claire Linney 4:37

not, it's not a, it's not a cheap habit, I will say. Although I have discovered that the Libby app allows you to get graphic novels from the library, and Newham have an huge collection. So when I realized I could read graphic novels for free on my iPad, that has been a, that's been a game

Lucy SB 4:53

Yeah, I completely agree actually. And that the, because some of the challenges with accessing graphic novels through, uh, in sort of physical copies from the library is that they're so popular they come straight off the shelf as soon as they're returned. It can be, c- can take quite a lot, especially if you're trying to read something in sequence or you're reading a series, it can be

Claire Linney 5:12

it's a mission

Lucy SB 5:13

So actually, that online access is really, really valuable and it's really, really helpful. My children really enjoy reading comics online. I tend to, I, I do like to have a physical copy.

Claire Linney 5:24

Well, I, I sometimes talk about I use my library, card to audition books, especially with, like, a long-running series, you're like, "Well, I don't wanna commit and get something," so I'll kind of audition it. I'll read the first one on the Libby app, and then if I like it, or sometimes I'll just read the whole thing on the Libby app, and then I'll just be like, "I'm buying a physical copy anyway." But then I least, at least I know I'm investing in something I wanna keep.

Lucy SB 5:47

But yeah,

Claire Linney 5:48

my library card to audition books and

Lucy SB 5:50

That is an excellent idea. Excellent idea. We're gonna talk a little bit about your writing, uh, a little bit later on., But, I wondered as a parent, Have you provided a kind of different environment to the one that you grew up in where comics were sort of slightly separate? What impact has that had

Claire Linney 6:04

I don't wanna look like I'm throwing shade on my mum. She's, like, amazing and support- But, like, my ta- my taste in

Lucy SB 6:10

Times have changed

Claire Linney 6:11

fr- Times have changed, and my mum very much gave me kind of classic worthy books and my dad gave me 1970s sci-fi. So, this, I am the project. I'm sort of the combination of that. So my son, so I, like, comics have been an absolute game changer,, in the house. So my son is, like, he's always been good at reading. He's n- he doesn't have any issues. He's always, he did well in phonics. But oh my God, phonics books, I mean, shoot me in the head. Just, I know it's a process and I know the process works, but there was one about, like, planting radishes in the garden, and we had to read it about seven times 'cause in each group there's only about seven books and I was like, "I cannot read." And my son, I could also, like, the light dying in his eyes. so I think when we started looking at books to get him to read, but also longer books for us to read, 'cause I think although there are still picture books that he absolutely loves, he started to want longer narratives. But the jump from a picture book to even early chapter books is really big. Even heavily illustrated ones, it's quite a big leap. And I think when I started sort of suggesting a couple, he just looked quite overwhelmed by them, especially in terms of him reading. So I started bringing, I started getting comics and graphic novels because I think it really helped to bridge that gap between something that was a longer form narrative, but was a lot more visual, so the storytelling was easier to follow. And we've kept up with them because he just loves them. And I love reading them. But I think they really help bridge between picture books and chapter books. And even in getting him to read, so he loves being read to. He's a bit more reluctant to read himself. His reading is really good. He's just la- I think it's just laziness, and he just likes being read to. but we quite often with a graphic novel, I'll get him to pick one of the characters. So I'll say, "Right, you pick the character that you wanna read," and then we'll read the whole thing. I'll do most of it, but he will read that one character, so he's still getting some practice,

Lucy SB 8:10

Yeah,

Claire Linney 8:10

and that was a really way of kind of involving him, which is, is you can't really do with a chapter book. It's really, but with a graphic novel it's really obvious every time that

Lucy SB 8:20

you'd often, sometimes you don't find out who's wr- well, o- often you don't find out who's saying something till the end. Obviously, you're making an inference. But if you're reading aloud, like when you get it wrong, you're like, "Oh, that was the wrong voice. Let's do that again."

Claire Linney 8:30

I get, I'm like, "Oh, that was supposed to be the, the, American accent that I'm doing." It's, I do a

Lucy SB 8:35

I thought someone else was talking. Yeah. Yeah, it's much clearer, in a graphic novel, I agree. And I think that it's great that although they were introduced as a kind of bridging the gap, that you've seen the value in them continuing beyond that, that they're just part of his kind of reading

Claire Linney 8:48

Yeah, and they're just, they're, it's, I think it's just they're just another format to enjoy reading from. I think there's, people feel like, it's people like, "Oh, but they don't do this and this," and I'm not, I'm not saying we should only read graphic novels, and I'm not saying we should only read books. It's like, why can't you just bring both into the reading that you do? And I think there's, there's also such just joy. I love visual storytelling, and that's what picture books do. It's the visuals enhance the storytelling. That is what graphic novels do. The visuals are there to add to the storytelling. And, my son and I are both obsessed with the Lightfall graphic novels by Tim Probert, which I, they, I just inhale them and then my son wasn't interested. And I do this thing sometimes I leave things on the steps outside his room, and he was like, "Oh, what's that?" I'm like, "Oh, no, no, Louis, that's not for you. That's, um,

Lucy SB 9:38

Sorry, I put that in the wrong place

Claire Linney 9:40

this is an older, this is for, like, at least nine-year-olds." So, I, this is when he was six. I was like, "This is too advanced for you, so I'm, this is only, this is Mommy's graphic. You can't read this." And he immediately was like, "I wanna read it," like, "Read it to me." And I was like, 'Ha ha ha, my evil plan has worked.' but he just sat there, and I read for 45 minutes straight, and at the end of it, I was thinking, this was... 'Cause the Lightfall is quite a complex fantasy quest. I was thinking, this, I think this has gone over his head, like, this is complicated. And at the end of it, I sort of said, "Oh," like, "what do you think is happening?" And he was just like, "Oh, there's this,, you know, there's Kest and he's trying to extinguish all the lights in the world, and they don't..." And he kind of just summed it, and I was like, "Oh, no, you, you've entirely got it." But I think that is the pow- I think if that had been a fantasy book of that level of complexity, I think he'd have struggled. But there's such powerful visual storytelling in Lightfall, and there's sections where whole parts of the story has no text, and there's other bits that are really text-heavy. So I think because of the visual element, he was able to get on board with a story that complex in a way that he wouldn't have done if it hadn't been a graphic novel. We then read all three books, and he was like, "When's book four coming out?" And I was like, "There isn't a publication date." And he was just like, "What? What, what do you mean?" Like, "What, where's..." 'Cause I think at that age, he had not encountered the, oh, no, the sto- we don't know when, so, um, when book four came out. Um, so yeah, that, that was a bit of a rude awakening to, oh no, this, the story isn't complete and I don't know when the

Lucy SB 11:14

someone's somewhere in a roo- dark room drawing away trying to trying to make

Claire Linney 11:20

also, yeah, Tom was also, he has a sense that I, I know other authors, so he's like, "Can you not tell the author to hurry up?" I'm like, "I, I don't know Tim Probert, and I don't think that would help."

Lucy SB 11:30

Yeah. It's re- I think as well we've been spoiled by the, the kind of model that David Fickling Publishing have where they're, they've got a very large back catalog of, of content from The Phoenix that then... So, like, Bunny vs. Monkey was coming out really rapidly because they were chunking up comic strips that already existed and had done from 10 years' worth of publishing in The Phoenix. Um, and yeah, we're m- not used to waiting for,

Claire Linney 11:55

Yeah. But I think, it's good. I think, 'cause I think

Lucy SB 11:58

The

Claire Linney 11:58

generation is so used to... Yeah, they're so used to just being able to binge-watch and everything's there. I was like, actually having to wait a year to find out what happens, this is maybe a g- a valuable life experience

Lucy SB 12:10

Yeah. 'Cause we used to only have, you know, four TV channels. Um, I'm always trying to tell my children that, who couldn't be less interested in how many TV

Claire Linney 12:18

No. And you're like, and if

Lucy SB 12:21

And if you went out, it was, "Oh, you've missed it."

Claire Linney 12:23

Yeah or you had an hour on a Saturday afternoon, and that was it

Lucy SB 12:30

You spoke about, you being a writer, having these contacts, from your son's perspective. But it'd be really great to hear a little bit about your, y- your kind of dual careers as both a writer and as an influencer, and how they kind of cross over or, and, and how they came about. I'd just love to hear a- about your background. I'm sure everyone listening would as well.

Claire Linney 12:49

So yeah, it was, it's interesting 'cause I had no intention to be a children's author. I had no intention to be a book influencer either. But I, when I was on maternity leave, I sort of, I started to do a bit of reading into my, um, Black identity, I think just in my late 30s. So I'd, uh, I read the brilliant book, Natives by Akala. I'd read British by Afua Hirsch, and that had sort of kind of planted this seed that I really didn't know much about Black British history. I kind of internalized this narrative that Black people were enslaved and then arrived with Windrush in 1948. That was kind of what I, what I'd sort of taken from my education and everything since then. So I ended up reading, um, this book called Black Tudors: The Untold Story by Miranda Kaufmann on maternity leave. I don't know why I would pick this up on maternity leave. I was mainly watching Love Island at two o'clock in the morning whilst doing night feeds. So I don't know how I went from that to like, oh, I need to read a really serious historical nonfiction book. But I found it absolutely fascinating. So it tells the story of p- different people of African descent who were alive during the Tudor period in England, and I had no idea that there were people who looked like me in Tudor times. And I think because my son was born, I was like, so I sort of was like, okay, and now I need all the books on Black British history. But my son's been born, so I think I naturally then started also looking at the children's books that were around, and I found some absolutely brilliant ones. There still needs to be more. I'm sure that there are more books on sharks for kids than there are Black British history, really honestly.

Lucy SB 14:17

Yeah,

Claire Linney 14:18

I kind of, I s- I started looking at that, but also I didn't like history growing up. Um, I really hated it at school, and I didn't really read nonfiction. I was very into adventure and sci-fi and fantasy. So I started then looking for the kind of historical fantasy, historical fiction books, 'cause I'm like, oh, there must be loads that are exploring Black British history in different ways, and I found maybe five. And I remember thinking, I don't think that's enough, or like, I don't think that's good enough. so I kind of got this earworm. I was like, well, what if I could explore some of these stories from Black Tudors, but through time travel? 'Cause I love Doctor Who, and who doesn't want a time machine? And also, then it's, like it's not historical fiction, it's time travel. So, so like, and I think in my head, I was like, I'm not a historian. I can't write a book about, I can't write a historical fiction book, but if it's time travel, that's absolutely fine. that made sense.

Lucy SB 15:09

Stories you told yourself.

Claire Linney 15:11

that is the story I needed to tell myself in order to do it. Um, so I kind of pretended I wasn't writing it for a long time, 'cause I was like, I have a career in marketing. I've just become a mom. This is a bad time, and COVID had just hit as well. I was like, this is a very bad time to start deciding to do a very time-consuming side hustle as a children's author. but I ended up writing it, and then worked on it on and off over the years and, but I started to give it to, friends who had kids that age. I'd given it to a few primary school teachers, and I'd got some really good feedback, so I was like, okay, well, I don't think my writing's terrible. There's something here. But I went out to query with it and just had a massive wall of silence for 18 months. It was literally just like screaming into a void. Um, so I was kind of feeling very dejected, but I had a chat with a friend of a friend who was a self-published author, and I think it was like a light bulb went off. I think I'd been, I'd been waiting for permission, for someone to give me permission to be an author, and I suddenly realized I could give myself permission. And I think because I felt like there was a reason for these books to exist, I'm like, there are not enough books on Black British history. There are not enough fictional books on Black British history, and there were no kind of non-historical fiction books that like time travel, kind of looking at it from a different angle. So I was like, okay, well, there's... I think that just sort of kept me going. Um, so the first book, Time Travel Travellers and the Silk Thief, came out in 2004, and I think when I knew I was gonna self-publish, I realized that no one was gonna care or know, apart from friends and family, that I'd published a book. So I

Lucy SB 16:47

have that marketing machine around you that you might... I mean, it's quite hit and miss which books are marketed and which books aren't within traditional publishing, isn't it? But i- but at least you think, you know, think there's some kind of machine there that might, that might do that

Claire Linney 16:59

Or at least distribution or, yes, there's, there's something to help you, and I thought no one is going to know. So, you know, with-- I do marketing as a, that's been my job for sort of 25 years. So I thought, "Well, I should start on Instagram and TikTok and try and build up some kind of awareness of who I am." And because I've been reading so many amazing kids' books since I started deciding to write for kids and, and absolutely fall in love with middle grade books, plus I'd read all these books on Black British history, I was like, "Well, it makes sense for me to start sharing those books because people who'll be interested in those books will be potentially interested in buying mine." So that's literally how it started. I was like, I'll start sharing reviews of all these amazing children's books, and they were largely all written by diverse authors that are Black authors, Brown authors. Like, all the representation I didn't see growing up, that's what I gravitated to. So that's kinda how it started, and then six months after building up a-- I mean, it took, I think it took me so long to get to 200 followers. Like, that was, that was the hardest thing. Going from zero to 200 felt like it was, it would take forever. It kind of the bigger you get, the easier it is to grow in some ways. And I'd also then made, not friends, but kinda got to know a lot of the other kids Bookstagrammers 'cause I sort of been following them and engaging with them, and I'd been invited to a middle grade book club that one of them ran online. So I think when my book came out, when I then sort of messaged people and said, "Would you like a review copy?" They all kind of knew who I was. It wasn't like a cold call. Like, I had, I had built relationships, and that's so important., So I was really lucky that I had a lot of people that really, were really supportive,, from the get-go. And yeah, things have just grown from there, and the third book in the series is coming out in October.

Lucy SB 18:46

Amazing. Have you ever thought about Making them into a graphic novel

Claire Linney 18:50

I would love to, but I am terrible at drawing.

Lucy SB 18:54

There's other people available who could do that drawing for you. Anyone

Claire Linney 18:57

I mean, if, if anyone, if anyone was motivated to oh my God, I would love it. I would absolutely... I

Lucy SB 19:04

Sounds like it could really lend itself actually. Like

Claire Linney 19:06

I think it would, oh my God, it would be brilliant, and I can already see what the time travel vortex would look like. I think also I'm a big fan of, I quite like reading graphic novel adaptations of existing stories. So for example, there's a really great one, um, of Noughts Crosses by Malorie Blackman for teens.

Lucy SB 19:24

one

Claire Linney 19:25

that's really great. I'm a big fan of Octavia Butler. She's like one of my favorite speculative fiction authors who writes the books like Kindred and Parable of the Sower. But there's a duo, so there's a graphic artist, John Jennings, and I think it's Damian Duffy who does the adaptation, but they have turned a lot of her biggest books into graphic novels, and it's really interesting 'cause her books are quite, like, they're tough subject matter. Like Parable of the Sower is this dystopian tale of American society collapsing, and it's in some ways more brutal to read the graphic novel because you're visually seeing the horrors depicted, but it, but less in other ways. So yeah, I've, it's, it's just, it gives a different lens to the story. So I'm always really fascinated with the graphic novel adaptations of, books I already really know. So yeah, I would love, I would love Time Travel Travelers

Lucy SB 20:12

Yeah, that'd be great. It would be great to just unpick a little bit about, you know, where we're at in your view with, the diversity of representation within comics. We've, we've obviously seen a really big boom in comics and graphic novel publication over the last few years. There's a lot more titles available. What is your reflection on the diversity within that? Like, I have some I have some reflections which I'll add to the, to the conversation as well. I judge some, book awards and things like that. And so se- see a lot of titles that are submitted, and I'm just interested to know what you think, in terms of the breadth

Claire Linney 20:54

So I think it, it's, I think it's very much a reflection of just the broader industry. So representation is, has been, has improved in children's books. It's nowhere near where it needs to be, and there's certainly the statistics suggest that a lot of sticking plasters and platitudes were put in place in 2020 after George Floyd, but nothing structurally changed. So things have kind of slid backwards. And it, it, I was, I think it's almost we're at the point where there's been a couple of years where people felt the need to be seen to be doing something. My concern is I'm not sure they feel the same need to even be seen to be doing something anymore. So things are,

Lucy SB 21:31

There isn't that external driver because of the political climate at the

Claire Linney 21:36

It's making, Yeah it's making things worse. So I think, and I, so my reflection is when I've gone out trying to find graphic novels and comics by Black illustrators,, by Brown illustrators, I struggle.

Lucy SB 21:49

I think particularly as well with Black British, like there i- there is the, it's,

Claire Linney 21:54

it really, yeah, I was literally like, I was trying to find, I think I was trying to find a graphic novel for teenagers from a Black British illustrator, and I thought I'd found one. She lives in the UK, but I don't think she's British and that's like, but she, um, but I love her graphic novel. But I, I really, really struggle. So what that tells me is that, and I think the world of comics, even when I look at some of the adult comics that I read, it's been historically a very white male arena. And I think if it's bad in children's books, I, I think it's sort of magnified in, in comics and I think just generally, I think illustrators of color have struggled to get the same opportunities, whether it's illustrating books or whether it's as graphic novel illustrate, uh, artists. So when I find books, I sort of really cling onto them and I'm like, this... But then it ends up in every single recommendation poll because I just don't have that, many.

Lucy SB 22:49

the diversity there to choose from.

Claire Linney 22:51

Yeah and I, I look for a lot of queer graphic novels as well, and graphic novels from,, any, traditionally marginalized voice. But certainly in terms of like Black and, Black and Brown, graphic novel artists, I, yeah, I really struggle. I find some great ones, but there are not nearly enough. and I think especially with kids books, there are a lot of historical properties that are really big, which is great, but they do tend to dominate.

Lucy SB 23:15

When a, when a, a series of book or a, a character becomes a brand rather than... Yeah. Yeah

Claire Linney 23:22

So I think s- and then that sort of gets a lot of the shelf space, and I think because there's not a huge amount of shelf space in bookshops currently given to graphic novels, and I think it's improving. It's much better in the States. There's just, it's a much bigger selection in the States, and I think the market's a bit more developed, so you, there's room for more diversity just because there's more room. So I think the danger is if you've just got one small shelf in a smaller bookshop, they're gonna put the biggest selling long-running titles on there, and that means even when you do get great graphic novels by artists of color, they just, they don't tend to get a look in

Lucy SB 23:57

You have to be actively looking for

Claire Linney 23:59

You have to, yeah, you have to work to find them. And that's, and people don't wanna put time and effort into finding stuff. They have lives and things. And that's partly why I think what I do on social media is so important because I love championing diverse author books, and I wanna make it just easy for people to find stuff, and easy for people to say, "Yeah, that, my son will love that. My daughter will enjoy that." So if I can just, if I can take the friction out of it, then I think hopefully that is getting the right books into more hands,

Lucy SB 24:28

Yeah, I think as well, there can sometimes be a perception that, a Black or a Brown character in a book is there for people who are Black or Brown to identify with. Whereas actually our, our identities are much more complex than that. And there's, of course you can identify with characters. You know, so if I, you know, reflection, not a, an illustrated book, but not a comic, but that my son was really interested, it, to read was, was the Harry Kumar series because the character is, autistic, ADHD, and he's autistic and ADHD, and he had never come across a character. And, and he really identified really strongly with that character and learnt things that he had no idea about. About Bol- what Bollywood was, about, you know,

Claire Linney 25:03

I love Harry Koomar.

Lucy SB 25:05

things that he had never come across before. So it was a really rich experience that he could both identify with a character and learn something new that was out- that's outside of his experience and, his immediate surrounding culture it's so valuable

Claire Linney 25:16

Absolutely. And also in most, and also people, people don't say that, "Oh, well my kid's not gonna identify with that 'cause they don't have superpowers, they don't have laser eyes and they can't fly." Said no

Lucy SB 25:25

Or they're not a talking bear. Yeah.

Claire Linney 25:27

or they're not a talking bear or they're not a bunny. I mean, my son's, my son's very into Neil Cameron's Donut Squad, which I don't, I don't enjoy as much as Mega Robo Bros although I have become rather fond of saying, "Oi, oi jammy boy" just at

Lucy SB 25:41

Yeah, I love Jammy Boy. It's my favorite one

Claire Linney 25:43

It's oi, oi donut. But I'm like my son's not a donut. He's never gonna be a donut. He has a uniquely non-donut lifestyle. But

Lucy SB 25:53

Neil was not willing to answer my question about which donor he most identified with. He drew the line.

Claire Linney 25:58

Oh, I've never met him, but now I'm gonna, I'm now I'm gonna have a thing. I mean, I, the, the whole mum, the mum and dad doughnut and little Timmy, and the, just the, the the parent relationship dynamic between the mum and dad, that is my favorite thing in the whole universe at the moment. I'm just, I'm living, living for Mum Nut and Dad Nut. Um, but yeah, I think, I, no, I think to go back to your other point, I think you're completely right, and I think, 'cause I think there's, there are universal things that kids are always gonna connect with, and then there are mirrors, or sort of windows rather, into worlds and experiences they don't know. I think also there's this danger, and actually Ramzi, who's a brilliant, author and illustrator, talks about this a lot, that characters of color when they turn up are supposed to be learning opportunities. They're suppo- you know, they're, they're only there to explain the trauma of their lives or to learn some, you know, really valuable and very worthy lesson and, and there's a lot of those stories that are very important, but also they should just be allowed to have fun and be silly and be unlikable and be a bit extra. They don't have to be there and signal worthiness in some way, or do you know what I mean? And I think there's a danger that when publishers are looking to commission stories like that, they're like, "Oh, okay, well, no, this is like, this is a South Asian story, so there must be something about the struggle of being South Asian in Britain, or the struggle of racism or being a..." And it's like, that doesn't always have to be the only story that people of color are allowed to tell, especially when it comes to comics.

Lucy SB 27:29

Yeah, 100%. Other reflections that I have there are more talking food items and more, heavily animal-based stories, than, than comics that feature real lives and just children's everyday experiences or fantasy genre featuring humans, of all different types. That, that, that is still a very slender section o- of what you're able to find, and that's not to say that those books don't individually have merit, but if you're looking across the whole industry about what's available, it's not hitting the mark yet, I don't think

Claire Linney 28:01

But yeah, I'm ever optimistic, but I do think, yeah, I do think things need to change. And I, and the problem is it's, it's not... I think what frustrates me slightly with the industry is they need to do more work. They, like, they need to go out and work out how they're finding these illustrators and nurturing and supporting their careers. You can't just put, "Oh, we're willing to receive more applications from diverse voices on your website." And they, and all the agents, and they do this. They all put hashtag diverse voices in your query, and I'm like, "Guys, that's not gonna cut it." You don't change, you don't move the needle by platitudes. You actually need to go and do some structural work and work out why people are not having careers, why they're not getting into the industry, and why they're not getting supported and platformed

Lucy SB 28:46

Yeah, definitely. shall we do the thing of making it easier for people to find some really good examples of comics and graphic novels that might, might be of interest to them? I'm super interested to what you're gonna come up with to share with us. So should we do age, age range and start with kind of younger readers?

Claire Linney 29:10

Yes.

Lucy SB 29:11

Definitely a prevalence of animals and cutesy things in the

Claire Linney 29:14

There are. So I've I've tried to go for at least one example that isn't animals. and actually I will say this age group, so like five to seven years, is the one that I struggle the most to find good diverse representation. And that's for chapter books actually, as well as graphic novels. It just seems to be this age group. Better in picture books, better in middle grade books, and then it sort of nosedives in this area. but my favorite at the moment is Supernova, by Chante Timothy,

Lucy SB 29:40

I would love Chante Timothy to come on the podcast. I need to try and,

Claire Linney 29:43

Oh, well, no, you should definitely ask her. She's absolutely lovely. But this, this also, this book is very special for me, I think, because I was a Black girl scientist. I did biology at university. So this is all about Nova, who is, Nova's quite, she's very, like, I love how confident she is, and she's a little bit extra. She has a secret science lab in her house. she realizes that there's a plastic pollution issue, 'cause she's watching something with her older sister who she absolutely hates. and she decides that she can solve the world's plastic crisis. So she goes and invents, in a kind of Frankenstein way, this little kind of cute pink monster called Chomp, and Chomp eats plastic. But Chomp eats all plastic, and Chomp doesn't listen to Supernova and kind of gets out of control and grows and nearly demolishes the entire city. and I also like she doesn't really get into that much trouble for, like, nearly demolishing the entire city. Her parents are like, "No, it's fine. We've, uh,"

Lucy SB 30:34

It was the ambition that counts

Claire Linney 30:37

Which is great. I love that for Nova. So there's some really nice messages about kind of the plastic issue, how you solve, what the issue is. But then it's, you know, you've got this kind of great Black girl scientist at the heart with these crazy inventions, and this creation of hers that just gets completely out of control and nearly annihilates everything. so there's something a bit anarchist about Supernova. but I really love it. It was, it's been really good for my son. And actually this is, it's also quite special to me. So my, my son never volunteers to read. Usually I'm like, "Okay, no, Louis, we need to practice your reading now." And I said to him, we were going to bed, it was about a couple of weeks ago, I said, "Oh, what book do you want me to read you?" And he said, "I'm gonna read to you tonight, Mommy." And I was like, "Who are you and what have you done with my son?" And he got Supernova out and he read the whole thing cover to cover, including the blurb on the back, including the acknowledgements and the instructions for how you draw Chomp at the end. Like, he was like, "I'm reading every word in this book." but even there's a bit where she's got the sound effects going, "No, no, no, no." It's written like, I don't know, 50 times in the background of one of the images. He read every single no in...

Lucy SB 31:44

That's dedication.

Claire Linney 31:45

It's r- I sent the video to Chante. I was just like, "I just thought you'd like to appreciate my son is fully committed to reading every word

Lucy SB 31:53

You made the effort to put it on there. I'm- he's gonna read it

Claire Linney 31:56

Yeah. But it's, it's a really fun story. I'm really excited that there's gonna be a second one coming in the summer, I think, and a third one next year. So yeah,

Lucy SB 32:05

It's great to have a series as well, and it's not just, sort of, just a one-off. It's gonna You know, the character gets to stay, and you find, you know, new, new adventures. It's just great to see that

Claire Linney 32:13

Exactly. So yeah, so "Supernova" has been a big favorite in my house, and I think, I think, I mean, Chante, I keep telling her, she's, she's, she's winning awards with this book. Like, I think because kids are just responding so well to it. so yeah, I think it's an abs- and I really love that my son loves the character of Nova. He's a boy, she's a girl. I think there's too much obsession with kids having to only identify with their gender leading books. But Yeah he absolutely loves "Supernova."

Lucy SB 32:38

That is brilliant.

Claire Linney 32:41

So the o- this one is, this is animal-based. So this is, this is Blueberry and Pancakes,

Lucy SB 32:48

So

Claire Linney 32:48

which I really love. And this, this is really great for younger readers because the writing's in lowercase, which actually that can be a challenge with graphic novels.

Lucy SB 32:57

Yeah, it's actually quite hard to find lowercase writing

Claire Linney 33:00

kids, find it harder to read initially. So actually, the fact this is in lowercase, there's loads of sound effects in this. It's basically about a giant bunny called Pancake, a slightly neurotic worm called Blue, and a very over-organized frog called Barry, on adventures, which are usually just very ridiculous.

Lucy SB 33:19

I feel like it channels for me, Saturday morning cartoon energy of the, of like the '90... It's got, it- it's kind of a bit of a

Claire Linney 33:27

the Road Runner, Wile E.

Lucy SB 33:29

exactly. I feel like it's, sometimes in the category for younger readers, and because you need to keep things simple for them to be able to follow the sort of flow of panels, sometimes it can be very repetitive. But I think it does interesting things

Claire Linney 33:45

Yeah

Lucy SB 33:45

the comic-ness of it. Like, it uses comics in a interesting way. There's some really funny things where, like, a scream carries on over, like, multiple panels and things, that just, it's funny and it, it's engaging

Claire Linney 33:56

Yeah, and I just, I, I think we've read... It's, it's what, it's a testament to h- when you read a book over and over and over and over again with your child, if you're still, like, you as an adult, you're still getting stuff from it. Like, you're not rolling your eyes and going, "Do we really have to read this again?" Um, whereas, like, always, like, when my son was like, "Can we read Blueberry and Pancake?" I'm like, "I'm 100% here." There's also quite, there's, I think it's the, maybe the third one, which is they go to a balloon planet, which has sort of been created by Pancake. There's a whole meta thing about how you create a planet that you have to travel to. I don't really entirely understand. He sort of created this whole being of people, and it's sort of there. I feel there's a backstory that could be explored to how Pancake, the giant bunny, creates Balonia. But at the end it says, "Can you find all these tiny balloon animals?" So we've gone back through the pages to find, and there's one we cannot find, and I'm convinced it's not even in there. And I'm, I actually, I spent, like, half an hour in my, like, having a coffee at lunchtime being like, "I'm gonna find this balloon animal." I can't find it. It's driving me mad.

Lucy SB 35:04

That's

Claire Linney 35:04

So yeah, Dan and Jason, who wrote it, I need, I need Dan. I might, I might just DM them and go, "Guys,

Lucy SB 35:09

Where is this? I'm losing my mind. Yeah.

Claire Linney 35:13

Put me out my misery." but yeah, so Blueberry, and I think there's about five out, but I think they, they've all come out in the US, so I think they're bringing them out quite rapidly. so yeah, it's a really fun series, and I've gifted this to quite a lot of my son's friends as well for birthdays 'cause it's,

Lucy SB 35:26

It's not one that's widely known, I don't think. It's, yeah, but it's probably people who know it love it

Claire Linney 35:31

it's so fun. my next one is, it's maybe a tad old for this age group, but I did read it to my son when he was six. It's one of the weirdest comics I have ever come across, and that is, Squid Happens: The Adventures of Team Pom It's, it's, it- so I found this in the library a couple of years ago,

Lucy SB 35:53

Flying Eye, published

Claire Linney 35:54

was...

Lucy SB 35:54

Eye, right? It,

Claire Linney 35:55

Yeah, it's, it's, it's gonna sound weird. So you've got three, three girls who kind of meet and bond and form a synchronized swimming team, which is quite, it's quite an interpret- yeah, it's quite an interpretive synchronized swimming team, but they aren't really getting a look in because their approach to synchronized swimming is a little random. But then you've also got this, it's avant-garde. There's a group of kids that are part of the Peanut Butter Mafia, I think it is. Something to do with that. And then basically you've got this evil mouse and his m- well, I don't know, is the... Oh, I can't remember if the main guy is a mouse, but they've got these mice henchmen, which are on a mission to retrieve something for their evil boss. But a squid that they need for an ingredient for this, is it anti-aging beauty cream? Anyway, the squid goes missing. The squid ends up being found by the three girls and is co-opted into their synchronized swimming team whilst these two mice henchmen... It's, it's just really, really weird. But I abs- and there's a sequel. It's one of the most wonderful things,

Lucy SB 36:54

It has a really distinct art style as well, like,

Claire Linney 36:57

It's quite retro

Lucy SB 36:58

yeah, it's, which is really interesting, and also maybe that's sort of part of why I feel like it might be borderline on that age group as well, I think it's a good one to share with younger readers

Claire Linney 37:07

Yeah, I think 'cause it's just, I think young kids do enjoy things that are just a bit weird and

Lucy SB 37:12

Yeah, especially, yeah, if you've got a child that sort of delights in the absurd as well,

Claire Linney 37:16

Yes. Then they will love Team Pom, Squid Happens. And just as an adult, just so much to enjoy in that.

Lucy SB 37:27

Shall we go to middle grade readers?

Claire Linney 37:28

Yeah, so my new obsession for this age group is Ramsay and Claude Tee's, Rex Power: Fear of the Invasion Bugs

Lucy SB 37:35

This is new to me. I kn- I know Ramsay's work, but I don't know... I'm gonna write it down.

Claire Linney 37:40

So I think Ramsay wrote this. I think Claude TC is the illustrator. So this is, I took this away on a weekend, and I was gonna read this on the train, and my son was reading something else, and he sort of looked over the seat and he was like, "What are you reading?" I was like, "Nothing." Anyway, I read it, this book to him four times, I think, over the weekend. It's about a kid called Cory, who basically, I think from an adopted Somali family, so he is trying to save his adopted brother from being bullied one evening. Sort of steps in to save him, and then accidentally gets in the way of an alien bounty hunter takedown. So this kind of evolved alien bounty hunter T-Rex type figure is trying to, take down an evil villain called Zordax. Cory interrupts it. There's a terrible blast, and he ends up having the, T-Rex's consciousness fused into his mind, so he's now got a T-Rex alien bounty hunter living in his brain. But can also kind of morph into his body. There's some complicated science going on. But mean- meanwhile, Zordax has escaped and has basically made Catford in South London his headquarters, and is using these bugs to kind of create fear and take over the world from Catford. And so Cory has to sort of make peace with this Rex tyrannosaur bounty hunter in his head and take Zordax down, and it's just brilliant. There's some really amazing kind of spreads in here, like the, there's a lot of just weird alien bug stuff. But there's also, I think, so there's loads of like fun sci-fi adventure and, you know, evil bugs taking over the world. But there's also a joke about avocados and gentrification that I just nearly wet myself at. I've never seen avocados used in such a brilliant way in literature, ever. But also there's this really lovely relationship between Cory and his adopted brother. So Cory's like worried that his family don't want, his foster family don't want him. He sort of misinterprets something, and it's his foster brother that sort of makes him realize that no, he is loved and they do want him in the family. So there's this really,

Lucy SB 39:47

as well

Claire Linney 39:48

yeah, there's this really gorgeous brother dynamic at the heart of it. But it is, it's just huge amounts of fun. So I'm really hoping there'll be more Rex Power because I, yeah,

Lucy SB 39:56

That's great. I'm gonna get a hold of that. That sounds brilliant

Claire Linney 39:59

I love the... It's not the kind of illustration style I generally go for, but I really, really loved it

Lucy SB 40:04

What's the, uh, kind of illustration style that you generally go for?

Claire Linney 40:07

I like watercolors, subtlety. I quite like black and white. I really like the sort of slightly vintage matte style of Squid Happens. That tends to be more what I'm drawn

Lucy SB 40:18

I want to. Yeah

Claire Linney 40:20

and I really love kind of big panels that sort of take it in. So I don't usually go for the very busy, there's lots happening, there's loads of action. but it may be just 'cause I hadn't found it in the right story because I think that kind of busy action, eyes drawn everywhere is very much Rex Power, and I really liked it in that graphic novel

Lucy SB 40:37

Amazing. What else have you got for us?

Claire Linney 40:39

I also, this is for slightly, slightly older middle grade readers, so maybe

Lucy SB 40:43

We've put middle graders eight, eight to 12,

Claire Linney 40:46

so this is Squire. So this is by Sara Alfageeh and Nadia Shammas. So I think it's a Jordan American, um...

Lucy SB 40:53

has been a guest on the podcast before.

Claire Linney 40:55

amazing. I will listen to that back. And then Nadia Shammas, I think, is a Palestinian American But I really, I loved Squire. It's about a girl who's, It's a fantasy. It's a girl who's in a kind of a tribe or group that is minoritized and ostracized in her world, but she longs to join, the knights who are kind of the heroes of the realm, and she really wants to be, a squire. So she kind of enlists to train as a knight, only to realize the, the world is very different to she imagined, and the role of the knights is very different. So it's kind of about colonialism, and power, and indoctrination, and this one girl's kind of fight against it. But yeah, um, yeah, I really loved this. It's, it's a big, it's a big chunky graphic novel, but you kind of just get so immersed into this world. it's really beautifully

Lucy SB 41:44

it's a really immersive world and the, um, and the kind of the landscape and the details that go into the creation of that world, but that just, it all just fits, and y- you're just lost within the world, I think, when you're reading it. Yeah, I think it's gorgeous

Claire Linney 42:05

Yeah, so I think Squire is, especially for fantasy lovers, I think if you've got kids that enjoy fantasy, I think, yeah, Squire, Squire is amazing. And then I think my final one is, oh, there's so many. I'm very obsessed with, two artists called, Jez and Syn Winboa. So they are, I don't know which country they live in, but they wrote a beautiful graphic novel called Luna Boy, stunning. They're also the illustrators of a really other great one by Tony Weaver Jr. called Weirdo, which was a recommendation from the US, but it's quite easy to get here, so I would recommend that. But Luna Boy is about a boy who's born on the moon, and his mother sort of finds him on the moon, adopts him, and they live in a space station, but then they kind of move back to to Indonesia. And so it's about how he copes, and he's also trans, how he copes with settling into this kind of blended family. So there's a lot about the Indonesian language and heritage and coming of age and the clash of different cultures, but also him, he sort of feels like the moon is talking to him and calling him back to the m- moon and it's like, does he feel like he fits in enough with his blended family and on Earth, or does he feel like he has to go back and live in isolation on the moon? so it's just this really beautiful story of kind of identity and belonging, in this sort of sci-fi. And The color palette's very kind of pinks and purples and blues and creams, almost, uh, sort of a Luna-esque element. So it's, I qui- I quite like graphic novels that don't just use the whole color palette, but, like, we're taking this palette of colors and we're using colors in a very specific way to highlight different elements of the story. So yeah, Luna Boy is, is one of my favorite graphic novels. I think it's just stunning. but I think as a, as an illustrator duo, really beautiful work

Lucy SB 43:58

Great. I'm definitely gonna get hold of that. Have you ever read any Tillie Walden comics?

Claire Linney 44:03

I don't think

Lucy SB 44:03

Tillie, so I would say it, that... Probably thought of as being a creative for adults, uh, but I think YA as well, makes really beaut- sort of crosses over, like, a lot of fantasy kind of elements in, a lot of, exploration of LGBT identity. There's this, my, one of, I think one of my favorite comics of all time is, Love This Part, and it's about this kind of burgeoning relationship between two teenage girls. And in it it's a metaphor throughout, which, in that they're, they're massive, they're, they're giant. They're like, they're, it's just it's their two interactions, and they're always, like, as big as the buildings around them., They're drawn as being very large with the landscapes. And it's almost like this kind of metaphor for the early days of a relationship with each other, and you're, like... It is stunning and from the things that you've said that you like, I think that you would really It's one of my favorite comics creators.

Claire Linney 44:59

and they, also I like the fact, 'cause I think I tend to binge graphic novels in one sitting usually. They never stay on my shelf for very long. Like, once I... Like, other books I will buy and I'll be like, "That's been there for two years, and I've still not read it." But graphic novels always, always get read. So teen ones I've got, so one of my favorite, illustrators at the moment is Lee Knox Ostertag, who I am just obsessed with his work. I just... It's, um, a lot of exploration of gender identity. But his first book was, um, his first book was The Girl From the Sea,

Lucy SB 45:31

love that book

Claire Linney 45:33

which is just... It's about a girl kind of falling in love with another girl, but she's a selkie, from the sea, so there's environmental messages in it. But, um, but they, and the cover's sort of got this, um, this gree- like a turquoisey green and pink, and there's something... The, I don't know, the way color is used in here, it's quite aquatic, a lot of the time. And, and there's some really, I love the way that there are text messages between the girl friendship groups. So it's very, it's a very good book for teens. It's not like young adult for actually adults. It's like, it's proper young adult for teens. It's all about that kind of friendship groups, not wanting to stand out, worrying what people are gonna think about you, but also meeting someone that kind of makes, gives you butterflies in your stomach for the first time. but I re- the, but The Girl With Sea is sort of really charming and really beautiful. And then at the other end, there's an amazing graphic novel he's done called The Deep Dark, which is, So it's about Mags, who is living with her grandmother, and there's some kind of family secret that you, there's, she ends up having to go down to the basement every night, and she comes back up and her hand is bandaged, and you don't know why, but it's something that is tethering her to her house, so stopping her from being able to move on. She's sort of having sex with a girl who's sort of dating one of the guys in school and keeping it a secret, so there's just a lot of kind of hiding things, and hidden secrets happening. And then a kind of a blast from the past, a girl that she knew growing up turns up and kind of, sort of blows things open, um, and brings her, and brings the secret that is biting her that is in the basement out into the light. Um, and it's re- it's c- it's a very dark fantasy novel, but it's stunning. And again, the color palette really reflects that. It's mu- you know, it's the opposite of The Girl With the Sea. It's a lot of dark, rich colors. but I, I just adored it. So I think anything by Lee Knox Ostertag, I'm just like, Yeah,

Lucy SB 47:24

Yeah, it's a great shout. I was gonna pick out as well for maybe the upper end of middle grade, possibly, younger, Unicorn Boy with Dave

Claire Linney 47:36

Oh, I love... We've just got the second one. I love

Lucy SB 47:39

haven't read the second one yet. It's so good because I just, it, it, again, it's got that, it's not issues-based representation. It's a fantasy book. It's a comedy book. It's a, you know, classic portal story. But that, yeah, exactly. That sh-

Claire Linney 47:52

And also,

Lucy SB 47:52

living their life quite

Claire Linney 47:54

yeah, and the main charac- and I love that the boy is, like, a unicorn, and he has pink hair. Like, my son, uh, definitely, like, loved wearing pink T-shirts, but stopped because he felt like kids were saying, "Well, you, girls wear pink." So I think there's a lot of kind of playing with gender conventions in Unicorn Boy, plus there's a talking muffin.

Lucy SB 48:12

Yeah, which just comes out of nowhere and is hilarious.

Claire Linney 48:15

Yeah, and then there's the c- and the cats have a whole thing, and then basically there's, they go into the underworld. It's, yeah, it's a very... Again, there's a wonderful weirdness about Unicorn Boy. The second one especially is about a unicorn slumber party. I had to pull out a lot of Scottish accents, 'cause it's basically set in Scotland, Scottish accents, I was like, "I am, I'm struggling with one. I'm not sure I can

Lucy SB 48:36

I once, I used to be a teacher and I once, I actually had to stop reading a book b- to the class 'cause I was like, I didn't realize that they had voted for it and it was, like, completely... And I was like, "I can't. I... G- guys, guys, I can't actually do this. This is,

Claire Linney 48:48

I cannot do

Lucy SB 48:49

this is, you're being traumatized. I'm being traumatized. Let's just maybe we'll get the audiobook and listen to somebody who actually can do a Scottish accent, and we will just leave it there. I need to move on."

Claire Linney 48:59

God. But yeah. no, unic- actually, I think Unicorn Boy is good for younger. Ba- I mean, based on my sons really enjoyed it at seven, so actually I think it, I think it's got good broad appeal. I think, I think younger teens would still

Lucy SB 49:15

There's a dry sense of humor in it, which I think sometimes a younger reader might miss, but you still get the humor from the more obvious plot point, humorous plot points. Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah,

Claire Linney 49:26

plot points. Absolutely. And then so I'm looking at my shelf 'cause there's so, uh, yeah, there's so many. I think I probably have slightly more actually young adult, um, books, but I'm, I'm a big fan of Bex, I think, is it Glendining, Glendinning? I'm not sure how you pronounce her surname. Um, so she is a Black queer illustrator who certainly lives in London. She's also, uh, was involved in a graphic novel called Brooms, which I am obsessed with. let me just get the... Hang on

Lucy SB 49:57

I'm getting my pencil again, writing that one down. Brooms

Claire Linney 50:00

Brooms is by Jasmine Walls and T.O. Duval. and this is set, it's a magic story set in 1930s Mississippi, where basically people of color who have magical powers are sort of ostracized and put in boarding school so they can essentially be controlled. So there's, it's kind of allegorical. Um, but there's, indigenous representation here, there's Black representation here, there's queer representation here. One of the characters speaks in sign language. but it's done just effortlessly, and essentially the get out or the, the one option to escape being controlled for two of the young Black girls learning magic is to join a magical broom racing team. So there are illegal broom races that happen under the radar of the authorities. So you've got... Then there's loads of other kind of stuff going on, but then you've got these kind of broom races, with these sort of,

Lucy SB 50:51

Could just imagine how that would look on the page. That would be really cool

Claire Linney 50:55

So yeah, so it's quite, the illustration style is really pared back, but it's, yeah, it's absolutely amazing. And yeah, I just, everything about this I was like... But I think Bex Gleundining did the lettering, I think maybe for it, and then that ended up leading me to, or someone recommended On Starlit Shores, which is her, um, graphic novel, and this is just really beautiful. It's So you've got the main character in here, um, Alex, goes back to this town called Indigo Harbor to basically go through her grandmother's belongings. So her grandmother, who she really loved, has just died. and she's kind of having to return to her childhood home. But Indigo Harbor is a magical place, but Alex doesn't realize it's a magical place. and there's things about her grandmother's past that kind of start surfacing up that she, she has to deal with, but also things in the town are getting strange. Um, there are falling stars. There are sort of witches running into tea shops. and there's this woman's name, Elizabeth, that comes up again and again, who she's trying to uncover what that person's relationship was to her grandmother. So it's sort of about how you, how you process grief, how you deal with losing someone you loved, but also then how you react to finding out things about them that you never knew. There's a lot of sort of using kind of very monochrome. It's very kind of purples and burgundies and pinks almost quite dreamlike, but it's re- it's a really beautiful story. Um, and I very rarely see people talk about

Lucy SB 52:24

Yeah. It's not one that's come up, for me before, so that's really exciting to discover some new things from this conversation as well.

Claire Linney 52:31

Yeah, no, it's been absolutely lovely. I love talking about graphic novels and comics and, yeah, I rarely get to do so with someone who reads as many as I do, if not more

Lucy SB 52:40

So we usually end the podcast, to just pull out a takeaway or something to think about or a kind of actionable point, that people could, um, take away. Obviously, there's quite a clear actionable point, I think, from this, which is that if you've heard some books that you weren't familiar with today, go out and find them. did you have anything more broadly that you would like to say to the listeners?

Claire Linney 52:58

Yeah, I think it's, I've, so I think I've got three things that I think are my sort of bugbears when it comes to comics. I think don't treat comics as a genre. It's, like, it's a format. So just like books can span everything from talking animals to really complex explorations of history, I think comics can do the same. So I think if you s- if you think about them like that, that they are just the format, and it's about exploring the breadth and depth of them, I think that's really key. I think they can be really great for kids that maybe struggle to engage with books or struggle with reading, or in that kind of transition period. I think visual storytelling is really underrated in terms of how that can h- enhance reading and reading for pleasure. I think that comics have this ability, I think look at their ability to inspire creativity, 'cause that's what I noticed with my son is when he's read a comic book or a graphic novel, he will start drawing something from it afterwards, and that doesn't happen so much with chapter books or text-based

Lucy SB 54:00

Completely agree. That's something that I love talking about. I'm really interested in, thinking about visual literacy from a creative side as well, when we're looking at visual texts, we are, we are being communicated with, we're having an emotional response, and we're taking on information, but we're also learning about creating images and how to communicate through image, and there's an output side of it as well. It happens so naturally often with children who are, are engaging with comics, that it's, it's a real... Also, as much as it's a gateway into, to reading often, it's also a gateway into writing for pleasure and s- and storytelling

Claire Linney 54:32

Yeah, abso-- and I think just 'cause it's visual doesn't mean it's not valuable, um, in the same way. And like it's one of the things actually I started doing when I go in-- So, like one of the things I do with schools is I will do a little mini workshop on kind of, it's almost creating a blueprint for a time travel idea. But in order to make it more accessible, 'cause I noticed there were some kids, who for v-various reasons might be struggling with writing or understanding, I will literally say to the kids, I'm like, "You can write this however you want. You can do bullet points, you can write sentences, or you can draw it." Like I don't, I was like, "I don't care how you put your ideas together. That's totally up to you." And so you will get a lot of kids who will just start drawing the ideas, and that way the storytelling just becomes-- Or, and then some kids will write their ideas, and then if they have time, then they'll start illustrating them. But it's been really interesting giving them that permission to say, actually this is cr- this is a creative session. This is not about, uh, whatever learning objective your teacher may have that's very important. So if you wanna draw your ideas, draw them. If you wanna

Lucy SB 55:34

great. And I think it really unlocks... If you think about how we start our, how we start communicating on paper, actually drawing is often one of the first things that happen If you talk to very young children about their drawings, there normally is something happening. Like, they're not just trying to represent. There is a story behind it. Like, this isn't that. There's, it's not just a person. It's somebody... They, they know who it is and what they're doing and where they've just been and and what's happening over there. And it also evolves, like, and then there's this over here, and now, so now I'm changing what my picture's about because it's kind of, it evolves as they add more things to it. There's, they kind of piece together a narrative, and that's what we see, like, children doing in the early years, and I feel like we should encourage that more to

Claire Linney 56:16

Yeah, I feel it sort of shut, it slightly shut down. It sort of all becomes about sentences and format and grammar and getting your adverbs in there, and it's like... And I know that's, I know that's important, it's foundational, but I feel like there could be more space for just the creativity part and exploring how you express things visually as well, because I think that, yeah, it just unlocks something different for kids

Lucy SB 56:40

Absolutely. I've been doing some I do run training called The Big Picture, which is all about visual literacy for t- for teachers, and I just delivered it yesterday. We were just talking about this very thing, about how to, keep the door open for,, for image and words going together for communication, and also for this kind of transmedia where, where children and young people want to take characters or scenarios from things that in the culture around them, like whether that be films, books, comics, and then bring them into their storytelling, which we often don't leave much space for. But it's actually a really normal response to processing the culture that you're surrounded by, to be able to go, "Okay, I'm gonna take this character. Your unicorn boy is now doing something else, and it's a story that I've got, I've got control of him in this world that I've created, and

Claire Linney 57:28

it's fan fiction and I think, yeah, kids should be allowed to do fan fiction because it's, you know, that's, that's a whole industry.

Lucy SB 57:35

Yeah, exactly. The final, final, final thing that we do on the podcast is if we were to add one book, so you've come up and had lots of recommendations today, but if we were to just add one book to our to be read piles, what would you recommend?

Claire Linney 57:51

yeah, I'm gonna say Luna Boy. Luna Boy by Jez and Sen Wimbua. I just think it's the most beautiful graphic novel and the most wonderful story, and yeah. And I'm just gonna stop looking at my shelf, otherwise I'll say more things. But yeah, I'm

Lucy SB 58:06

I'm gonna suggest one which I'm reading at the moment, which is a bit, bit different, 'cause it, it has got comics in it. Which is Making Nonfiction Comics, the book's called. And, it is by Ellery Harris and Sarah Mirk. And it is so good. It's a step-by-step kind of guide. There's lots of different interviews with different nonfiction comic creators. Talks about comics journalism. Talks about how to do an interview, how to keep track of your sources, how to challenge, biases, how to ensure you're getting a, y- you know, that you're telling untold stories in your comics, and it's just a really... It's really cool. It's making me think. It's one of those things like, now I think I'm gonna be a nonfiction comic creator after t- after 20 pages. Like, yeah. Oh, this is my new identity. Thank you for that one. But it's

Claire Linney 58:58

if I c- if I could draw, I mean, yeah, if I could actually learn how to draw, uh, I- my problem is I'm very good at, I can replicate things, but I'm not, I can't originate. My son is much better at originating, so I may, I may just train him up. In 10 years time

Lucy SB 59:12

He can be your, yeah, he can do all of your adaptations for you. That sounds great. But it's been absolutely brilliant to talk to you today. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Claire Linney 59:21

Oh, thank you for having me. This has been such a pleasure. Thank you

59:26

There you have it. What a great guest and what a strong list of recommendations. Some of them I knew and was a really big fan of already. Some of them completely new to me, and I'm definitely going to go and check those out. Really, really interesting wide range of titles there for us to explore. The first thing that caught my eye on Claire's Instagram feed was her recommending and just going into great detail about how great Neil Cameron's Mega Robo- Bros series Is, and I knew from that moment on that we were gonna get on like a house on fire because it's unbeatable. Such a great series. my recommendation for today, I've already given some in the episode, but I'm also gonna flag, a new one that came across my path, this year, Unfairies by Hugh Aaron. It's funny. Great characters, really engaging storyline, and an interesting approach to artwork. I always am kind of led by the artwork. And it's more of a kind of watercolor and sketchy approach to artwork, which you don't necessarily always see in children's graphic novel category. And just really witty and engaging. Hugh Aaron's a great writer. Lots of really funny, engaging picture books, from him as well. So check that out. A Welsh author, illustrator, someone worth exploring a little bit more. And other news on new books, new books on the block. You may have also seen as well if you're following on social media, Comic Boom, comic_boom_podcast, that Helen Jones and I have a book out together called Comics in the Classroom, published by Routledge. It is now out and available to purchase, and it is all about using comics in the classroom from primary age right up through to key stage three. Lots of practical advice, lots of recommended titles, research-based, the evidence base for why, it can really improve outcomes in c- your classroom to start working with comics. There are things in there that you might not expect, like a section on sustainability, how we approached exploring themes of the environment through comics, thinking through comics,. We've got specific chapters on, the importance of diversity when exploring comics, and also accessibility in comics as well, and some of the challenges picked out in those as well, not just all the benefits, but, some of limitations, some of the things that need to be improved. So, a really practical guide for educators. Librarians and teachers will all find things, something of interest there. Worth checking out. But I would say that, but if you're listening to this podcast, definitely check that book out. You should be able to get it from your library as well as from your local bookshop. That's Comics in the Classroom by Lucy Starbuck-Bradley and Helen Jones. That's it for us today. You've been listening to Comic Boom, which is hosted and produced by me, Lucy Starbuck-Bradley. Thanks for listening.