Comic Boom - Comics in Education with the team from publisher Flying Eye

Following on from the last episode, in which Lucy chatted to writer Hannah Tunnicliffe and illustrator Erica Harrison, creators of Detective Stanley and the Mystery at the Museum. This episode - part two of the double bill - follows the journey of creation of a graphic novel from commission right through to sales and marketing.

Lucy is joined by:

Fay Evans – Editorial Director

Kate Manning – Head of Sales

Hannah Kettle – Head of Marketing & Publicity

Helena Maratheftis – Digital Marketing Co-Ordinator

This episode of Comic Boom is sponsored by ALCS, The Authors Licensing and Collecting Society.

Lucy's recommendation:
Frog in the Fall (and later on) by Linnea Sterte Peow

- I got the Slip case edition from Gosh Comics! 

Flying Eye's recommendations:

Rune : Tales of a Thousand Faces by Carlos Sanchez
Luna Boy by Jess and Cin Wobowo
Ditching Saskia by John Moore and Neetols
Froggy: A Pond Full of Pals by Paige Walsh
Young Hag by Isabel Greenberg

Connect with Flying Eye:
Insta: @flyingeyebooks 
X: @flyingeyebooks
BlueSky: @flyingeyebooks

Follow the podcast:
Insta: @comic_boom_podcast
Twitter/X: @Lucy_Braidley
Bluesky: @comicboom.bsky.social

Contact: comicboompodcast@gmail.com

Music by John_Sib from Pixabay

Transcript

0:10

Hello and welcome to Comic Boom, the Comics and Education podcast. If you are interested in hearing more about the crossover between comics and education, then this is the podcast for you. My name is Lucy Starbuck Braidley, and each week I'll be joined by a fellow educator, a librarian. An academic or a creator of comics to discuss their journey into comics and provide some inspiration to influence your practice and hopefully shine some light on some titles you can bring into your libraries, your classrooms, and onto your bookshelves at home too. This episode of Comic Boom is sponsored by A LCS, the author's licensing and collecting society. Now this episode is the second in a two part special focusing on the Flying Eye title, detective Stanley, the Mystery at the Museum. In the first episode, we met the creators of the book themself, Erica, and Hannah. Go back and check that episode out. If you missed it. It's the story of how the book came about, how they worked on it together. well worth a listen, but in this episode, we're taking a peek behind the curtain to explore the different roles that collaborate on bringing books like Detective Stanley Mystery at the Museum to our Shelves. So today I am joined by the marketing, sales, and editorial team who worked on that book from independent publishers flying. Eye very lucky to be joined by Faye Evans, editorial director. Kate Manning, head of sales, Hannah Kettle Head of Marketing and Publicity, and Helena ti digital marketing coordinator to talk about how all of those elements come together to work with the creative team to bring that book that we talked about last week to life. Just one thing to note the sound on this episode is a little different just because we had the Flying Eye team all in one room around a mic. It's all good quality. You can absolutely hear them perfectly, but uh, if you're into your audio, you might notice a slightly different sound than we usually have on Comic Boom, where we have just one person per mic. sounds fantastic though, and they've got some great things to say. I found it fascinating to explore the industry behind the books that we read and to think about how that industry influences what we have access to and our reading preferences. Lots to think about. Lots to explore. Here's what the flying I-Team had to say.

Lucy SB: 2:19

Hello Flying Eye Team. Welcome to Comic Boom.

Helena: 2:22

Hello.

Lucy SB: 2:23

What a lovely chorus. A chorus of hellos. this is a record breaking number of guests for comic Boom. So thank you all for coming onto the podcast today. I'm gonna start with Faye. so we've talked to the writer and illustrator, Hannah and Erica, of Detective Stanley Mystery at the museum. And I know from their side how their submission process went, but could you tell us a little bit about the process from your side? An email lands in, into the inbox, um, with an idea for a book, and what are you looking for and what, what is it that really piqued your interest about that proposal in particular?

Flying Eye Team: 2:59

Yeah, sure. So generally, I mean, we get submissions in a lot of different ways. Uh, we do have a submissions email. We go looking, we look on Instagram. We do lots and lots of different things to find books because we originate 99% of our stuff in-house. Uh, so we get, we get it in a lot of different ways. But yeah, this was originally submitted by Hannah and Erica, and originally they've made like an activity book for their children's schools. And it came into the inbox here and, Sam, who's our creative director and co-founder, he saw it, obviously saw how brilliant Stanley was. But we don't really do activity books here unless it's part of an already established series or established book itself. So,

Lucy SB: 3:44

a spinoff type

Flying Eye Team: 3:44

exactly that's right. So he looked at it and went, this should be its own thing. And because Hannah and Erica are obviously both extremely talented and have both worked in writing and design and, and everything together, and separately before, um, they were able to go away and come up with Detective Stanley in the Street Museum,

Lucy SB: 4:06

In record time. I understand they said like three weeks to do that.

Flying Eye Team: 4:09

honestly, they're so speedy, but so brilliant. At the exact same time, which is pretty rare, I think, you know, because obviously Genius takes time. But, uh, obviously they had Stanley on hand helping them out, our genius, uh, investigative king. So yeah, it's, it was extremely quick and extremely cool. And yeah, that's how Stanley was born and we signed'em up for three books.

Lucy SB: 4:35

Yeah, they said that was really exciting. I'm interested in, so they said that it was kind of a piece of luck as well around it, like that, there had been conversations going on that within the broader spectrum of titles at Flying Eye. There wasn't a detective series yet, and that was something you were kind of keeping your eyes out for. And I'm just interested in that kind of curation piece as well around the whole collection that you have. And because I know it's, it's kind of notorious in publishing that people get turned down a lot before they find their right home for their book. And like so much of that is just not, I guess, a reflection on the quality of people's ideas, but on what the publisher happens to be looking for at that moment in time.

Flying Eye Team: 5:13

Absolutely it, so much of publishing is truly right place, right time, right people. That's, I would say the majority of it in my experience, especially at a list like Flying Eye, which is not, you know, hundreds and hundreds of titles. A it's like 40, well, 36 to 44 I think it is. That's very specific titles a year. And that covers board books all the way through to YA. So that's obviously quite a lot, uh, within that. And that's fiction, nonfiction, picture books et cetera. So the curation of that list is, is quite. Specific, like I wouldn't ever want to put two competing books against each other,

Lucy SB: 5:55

mm.

Flying Eye Team: 5:56

together, for instance. Or sometimes me, we might not wanna put two fairy books in the same year, or two Wizardly books or two actiony books, like in the same set, like space in time because obviously we're just cannibalizing that book's chance. So when we see projects like Detective Stanley, which is completely unique and wasn't going up against anything, that made it a lot easier.'cause we knew that we wouldn't have to wait. We knew that I wouldn't have to delay it or like, oh, we wanna save this for another six months or so to, you know, make the book. But we do have to kind of plan in advance to make sure that everybody gets their own space and is competing at the right time. So, yeah, it does happen a lot where we'll see stuff where we like, oh, I really like that, but I already have a.

Lucy SB: 6:45

Yeah,

Flying Eye Team: 6:45

Or insert topic book at that time. And it doesn't mean that, oh, that, you know, there are too many of that book or whatever. It, it simply means that at a smaller list, it would just compete with itself if we had something too similar. So that does happen a lot in publishing. Um, or sometimes we'll see three very similar books at the same time. Not necessarily the same style or, or whatever, but maybe they'll all be kind of doing the same thing, um, in a, in a very general way. And that mean that we can only really choose to have one of them simply because there's no need for a list to have two, because buyers will be looking for one thing on that list and we really wanna get behind that specific thing. So, yeah, exactly. Like you said, it's not that something isn't good. Probably most of the time, it's usually the, it's just not the right place, the right time, the right people. With a lot of submissions, I will say.

Lucy SB: 7:43

yeah,

Flying Eye Team: 7:43

But yeah, we're looking for a specific thing. We will either be kind of going to look for it or maybe we'll say to agents who we work with. Or it could even be that we've had submissions from authors and illustrators before, haven't been able to do a previous project, but love their work and have gone to them and gone anything on this. So that happens too. So basically what I'm saying, anything can happen at any time from anyone, anywhere, and you never know anything at all. So.

Lucy SB: 8:12

Wow. Exciting. It would be quite good to take a bit of a step back and just hear a bit more broadly about what your role is and what your part that you play in particular in, in the sort of journey of a book coming to, to fruition.

Flying Eye Team: 8:29

so I'm the editorial director at Flying Eye. basically I'm in charge of everything, editorial, so I work with our creative team, including our brilliant art director, Lily, who manages our designers. I work really closely with Sam, our creative director, who I mentioned earlier, um, and these guys, Kate and Hannah and everyone else to make sure that we have enough books, we have the right books, that the books have the right content that we're choosing the right illustrators for them if, if they don't come with an illustrator to start with. I also edit the books, not all of them luckily, or I would be a zombie, but I manage our brilliant editorial team too. Um. Do our books. So I edit Detective Sammy. I also edit most of our picture books, um, and a bunch of our graphic readers, and then some of our nonfiction too. So that's basically, if you see a word, I probably was there at some point. There's a lot of like story development stuff that I work with, whether that's directly with the author, illustrator, or whether that's with the editor who's managing the project or content development, if it's nonfiction. Um, and I'm also usually working with, like I said, the sales and marketing team to make sure that their needs are kept in mind at the same time as when we're curating the list. Whether that's, um, ensuring that we have the right cover, you know, our art director and, and me, we'll work really closely with these guys on that, whether we're bringing the right project in, because I also manage our acquisitions team. So an acquisitions meeting. So if stuff comes through to me and or Sam, we will bring stuff to our meeting and I, I kind of manage that and try and keep it on track, try aggressively, um, and move things forward to, to fill our lists because we're obviously, we're not just working on this year and next year, but we're working on 2027 and 2028 um, and making sure that our schedules work. And none of my editors and designers cry.

Lucy SB: 10:34

That's a very important job. So if we're specifically thinking about Detective Stanley, what does that process look like? So on the other side of the world, you've got an author, and illustrator, beavering away creating a book. Are they finishing it in their mind and then sending it to you to look at, or are you, they you seeing it earlier on in, in the process? How does that kind of work?

Flying Eye Team: 10:54

every project works kind of differently. Um, Hannah and Erica are so advanced and so experienced in what they're doing, and they know Stanley obviously so, so well that their process looks kind of different to a lot of people's, but we do see things early on. So usually we'll see, a one page kind of expanded blurb, of what the story is gonna be. And then I will comment and feedback on that. So we are nearly, well, we're coming kind of to the end of the second book at the moment and already started to work on the third as well. So we are kind of doing a little bit of everything here and there the whole time. The characters and whether there's enough twists, uh, whether there's, you know, what kind of mystery we're doing in this specific thing, you know, will tend to comment on. Can we think of anything to make this funnier or, or in my in my experience, I'll usually be like, would it, could, can we have this silly pun that I've just thought of? Because I love Stanley so much. Um, I think it's just such a funny, it's so funny as a series and we all have our own specific favorite characters that Erica draw so beautifully. So we, uh, will sometimes inject that kind of stuff too. And then they go away and I get manuscript back and I might comment on that further. And then once that's approved, that can go to Erica. Uh, a lot of the time that would just go straight to our designer in-house as well. Um, but because Erica also,

Lucy SB: 12:22

Yeah, we spoke about that when, when I chatted with

Flying Eye Team: 12:24

yeah, which is obviously not. As normal as, as we would usually do it because, but she has worked obviously as a designer before and knows exactly what these needs to look like. And she works with our designers in house and they also comment and go back and forth just like an editor would. So it goes to her to be type set. Um, once that's done we'll check it. That's stage two, make any suggestions we have, and then it goes to roughs, then it goes to color. So we'll always be checking and

Lucy SB: 12:50

Mm.

Flying Eye Team: 12:50

giving our feedback at stages before we even get to the full drawn out stage where, you know, we might make text changes later once we see the illustrations and think, oh, maybe this needs to be explained more. Or maybe this doesn't need to be explained at all.'cause we can see it in the background. You know, there might be stuff like that that happens. Um, yeah, so it's very, very back and forth, very integrated despite the fact that, as you said, we live completely opposite ends of, and it's quite hard to arrange a call, but we do a lot of PDFs anyway.

Lucy SB: 13:23

And, and obviously you've you've got massive experience and, and I'm sure that's what's playing into those decisions at, at any point. Not, not on a title by title basis, but I guess just in the broad work that you do, are you getting opinions from younger readers as well as to how they're, how they're reading it? I'm just thinking about to what extent adults can really know the child experience and Yeah. How do you approach that?

Flying Eye Team: 13:46

so I mean, we do a lot of research. We read a lot of reviews, uh, particularly from either from children or by adults talking about what their children and like. I'm also an X book seller, um, so is Kate. many, many, many years at Waterstone. So between us, um, and my entire editorial career, I've always. Always kept in mind how aggressively, like some of the things that adults say and some of the ways that adults treat books differ from the things that I would hear every single day in uh, children's bookseller. And I often try and frame that kind of stuff through that POV obviously I also have friends who have kids that are

Lucy SB: 14:31

Yeah.

Flying Eye Team: 14:32

across many different ages, And just when, when you see a child reading, like I'm thinking about a friend of mine's, uh, son reading Detective Stanley and actually our rights director's son was in here at Christmas reading it aloud and it was genuinely so thrilling.

Lucy SB: 14:49

Yeah.

Flying Eye Team: 14:49

See, it actually happened with something that is about to come out instead of reading the reviews some months, some months later. Um, yeah, so we do, we do always try and keep in mind. To a child than maybe an adult or that sort of thing.

Lucy SB: 15:05

When I was talking to Hannah and Erica, my son read, both my sons read it with me and we, we really enjoyed it and they just, I felt that kind of joy of, well, I think it does really well, is that joy of being s slightly ahead of Stanley, like, you know, you can see the, you, you see the clues and that they really enjoyed that, that yeah. Smugness

Flying Eye Team: 15:27

That's a really good part.

Lucy SB: 15:29

knowing, knowing what was going on before he did.

Flying Eye Team: 15:31

The illustration really help with that too, because

Lucy SB: 15:33

yeah, exactly.

Flying Eye Team: 15:34

what we're able to do is kind of hint ahead with, with a book like this, which is why this kind of reader is, is so brilliant and it's quite nice to see that transition between picture books and, and graphic readers and I. The other thing that I always think about, and I think a lot of editors will also think about is the fact that, you know, when we make illustrated books, and this starts with picture books we are not illustrating what's happening on the page. It directly, it's not a reflection, not a mirror image, where having something illustrated that enhances the story. It's supposed to tell the story as a picture book

Lucy SB: 16:10

Yeah.

Flying Eye Team: 16:10

and the text is together with it. It's, it's basically it's text and illustrations together rather than

Lucy SB: 16:18

Making a

Flying Eye Team: 16:19

I have written down what is happening on the page, or I have illustrated what the words have said. You know, obviously there's some of that, but it really does need to work. And graphic reads really, really take this and kind of move a few steps forward.

Lucy SB: 16:32

Yeah, I completely agree that, and that's a real for me, when I'm looking at at a comic, I'm really, that's one of the things that I'm really looking for is tenants of like a quality marker. When you can see that the images are required to tell the story and it's an equal partner in that it's not just, oh, comics are popular, let's whack this story in that

Flying Eye Team: 16:48

exactly. Yeah. Can I jump in on that? Because I think also the studies recently by, by the NLT and by Scholastic are really supporting that with kind of saying. Comics are helpful for reading comprehension because, because when they do that in tandem, as opposed to just reflecting each other, they're building a further understanding of what's, of what's happening. I think that's a perfect point of what you said. It is a quality marker because it's enhancing. Although comics are a hundred percent for enjoyment and reading for pleasure, there is still that value and that educational, aspect, which is, it is improving their reading comprehension. It doesn't just have to be through words because it aren't, like you say, a direct reflection of the words. Both elements are adding more richness, more depth to, to. Layers understanding, I think are what make illustrated books so enjoyable and so helpful in comprehension and just reading in general. And one of my favorite things in, in all, all ages of, of illustrated books is on reread, like the reread

Lucy SB: 17:58

Mm.

Flying Eye Team: 17:58

Like, oh, that thing, oh my gosh, I saw that thing the first time. Or like, oh my God, I didn't think that was, oh my gosh. You know, that super excitable, like reread value is, is extremely important.

Lucy SB: 18:15

we're talking about reading, I think this is really relevant and kind of developing reading. I'm really interested in that kind of positioning of the graphic reader and its audience and how that impacted the choices that were made about the book itself. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Flying Eye Team: 18:29

Yeah, so graphic readers are, I think, super, super important. I mean, we all know the kind of five to eight reading category and what you'll usually see in there. These are illustrated books. But uh, I think it's always you talking about, sorry, I'm pointing at Kate and specifically with my eyes. And when I say this, uh, always saying that, you know, we teach children to read and then do you wanna say actually,'cause I'm stealing from you.

Lucy SB: 18:53

Jump in. Jump

Flying Eye Team: 18:54

It's basically like, you know, you celebrate a child's, uh, you know, ability to read by taking away their pictures and it just seems. Absolute waste. You know, as we saying you, you know, visual literacy is just as important, you know, it's a, it's a very important stage understanding to then just remove someone's pictures. Go, oh, well done. You can read. So now you just have the words.

Lucy SB: 19:11

yeah. And it's like, well now I don't enjoy it because I, that was the thing, you know, for some children that isn't the thing that's really hooking them, but for, for, for some it is the images that they get a lot of enjoyment out of. And then I think that is part of why we see a tear off in reading for enjoyment in that as children get older, it's'cause the, the, the thing that they're enjoying has kind of been pulled away.

Flying Eye Team: 19:30

It's also a slightly easier transition from picture books, which is, you know, what, they all have been reading for a long time into, you know, the learning to read books that we all grew up with and see now in the phonics books, they're all full color illustrated books, but then all of a sudden, if you ever wanna read anything by yourself, it's like, okay, cool. Now it's just a block of text and a block of my image. Obviously there are some books in that market that have some color images and, but they're just kind of few and far between, and I just don't think that there's anything wrong with comics. You know, we know that they're brilliant and they really improve interest and literacy and it's a very good reason to, to give them to younger children. Now, the difference I suppose, in, in the comics at this age, or, or the graphic readers as we call'em, is the amount of panels and the fact that we still have running text.

Lucy SB: 20:25

Mm.

Flying Eye Team: 20:26

So obviously it's not. Lots and lots and lots and super, super long because it's still for ages five plus. Um, but there is one in text and then there is also text in speech bubbles and a lot, a lot to follow and a lot to see in the panels themselves. But I think that the panels also improve following the story and following everything that's happening visually as well. You know, with the sequential, uh, understanding and the the comprehension of the narrative. It, it's really, really interesting how, how graphic readers allow us to, to push that a little bit further without just having one image on a page and a block

Lucy SB: 21:07

yeah, And Kate, I'm really interested at what point you start thinking about it sounds like it's right from the start, but you're thinking about sales, choosing the right titles for retailers and Yeah. When does that all kick off? Is it right from that inbox moment?

Flying Eye Team: 21:23

So basically, um, we get involved from the acquisitions meeting. We read the material before acquisitions. When, when Faye brings things along to meetings from the sales and marketing and PR point of view, that's, that's when we start to get involved. And, um, at that meeting, it's very much a question of, right, who's gonna read, who is the audience for this book? Which retailers will this work in? And you sort of realize over the years that actually your personal opinion absolutely is irrelevant. Mm-hmm. You know, because

Lucy SB: 21:47

Mm.

Flying Eye Team: 21:49

what Art Star I like, what books I like is who will, you know, who will read this? Where will this sit? And luckily, you know, I love most of the books, which does, does really help, let's face it. But, um, you know, that objective sort of, where does this, where's this gonna live? Who's gonna love this book? Um, and then from there on in, I mean, it depends how long a book is gonna be, you know, in, in production and when it's gonna be, published. But things really kick in about a year before a book's published when we start, you know, all the fun stuff of, of feeding bibliographic detail out to, to various sites and, you know, Nielsen books and all that kind of thing. And, um, and then we sit down, make plans. We present at highlights meetings to the, to the key accounts, to our sales teams around the world. So probably sort of, yeah, a year to nine months in advance, that's when we start talking about books. then just, yeah, that carries on forever, really. Um, but that's the sort of timeframe. When it comes to the independence in the uk then, you know, they're seeing the books two, three months before publication. But yes, it's, it's about a year out. We start really getting involved and really.

Lucy SB: 22:52

Mm, it's so interesting. I saw a definition, so I was working on some training about visual literacy for the National Literacy Trust, and I found a definition about a, a sort of a definition of picture books. And it was really interesting'cause it talked about, you know, a picture book as an experience between an adult and a child. It, it's on the turn of the page, it's the quality of the image, but it's also a product. And I thought just putting that element in is really interesting because there are obviously market forces at play as to, and I remember talking to, the Christian editor at David Fickling a few years ago for a podcast episode and him saying that one of the big things that he felt had really helped their sales take off was changing the size of the book so that it could go on the shelf in Waterstones alongside chapter books. And how much are you thinking about those kind of things as well, and, and what, limitations are set by the retailers that, that you want to sell to.

Flying Eye Team: 23:45

absolutely. I mean, you know, will it fit on a shelf is a big consideration.

Lucy SB: 23:49

Yeah.

Flying Eye Team: 23:50

And we do see, you know, we have seen trends, um, over the past few years, you know, especially in illustrated nonfiction, you know, very, very large, more coffee table, style books coming play. And shelving had to be moved to, you know, to accommodate those. but we're constantly thinking about things like that, that it's about price point, you know, perceived

Lucy SB: 24:05

mm

Flying Eye Team: 24:06

Whether it should be hardback, paperback all of these things come into play. But yes, fitting things on shelves is, is a very big thing. And again, you know, as I saying, being an Xbox seller really does help when you are.

Lucy SB: 24:17

Yeah, I can see it from that perspective.

Flying Eye Team: 24:19

Absolutely. And just how, how will a book seller physically sell this in store? Where will it sit? Which section will it sit in? And I think it's, it's really interesting, especially sort of the graphic reader, comic front, because obviously we're seeing them becoming more and more popular and it's people are now beginning to have their own graphic novel bays or, and, you know, looking at different age grouping and how you just sort of distinguish between age groups. So I think that's gonna, that's gonna be a big thing we're looking at, you know, going forward about how, if, if there is a specific section, how it fits in there, or rather than sitting on a table on a, in a fiction section. Mm-hmm.

Lucy SB: 24:52

Yeah. I noticed also in judging book awards that I think there needs to be some more understanding of terminology as well, because also, like there are a lot of things being called graphic novels are nonfiction, and that's not a novel. Um, and like it's, I just think people are nervous about saying comics, but if we said comics, it would be much easier. And then we could have nonfiction comics and fiction comics and I, I think that's super. Sorry, I'm just going off on my own little

Flying Eye Team: 25:15

I, I completely agree. It's that thing. Probably what we need to do in publishing book is all sit down and discuss

Lucy SB: 25:21

Yeah. Can we just have, yeah, let's have a, a meeting about it.

Flying Eye Team: 25:24

age grouping, you know, with what, what a group is, why, and things like that. And actually should come to some consensus across, across publishing about what, what does this actually mean? And, you know, and how do actually sort of talk about this. Mm-hmm.

Lucy SB: 25:38

Yeah. And I'm interested, you know, about the, about you mentioned about costs and things like that, and because I think that one of the things about flying eye titles, I feel like they're quite distinctive. I could probably pick one out of a lineup without knowing the, knowing the book before, because I, I feel that they, and they also have a sort of feel in the hand and their, the quality of the book. And then, but I imagine these things come with a cost and there must be this balancing point of making something that's really lovely and it being too expensive for people to buy. How do you, is that, how do you manage that kind of tension, I guess?

Flying Eye Team: 26:13

I think, you know, the big thing we have to, and I think this happens with all color publishers, is, you know, we, we have to look at the print runs and we work closely with our, you know, rights team and we try and make print runs, large print runs by making sure, you know, we with the co-eds and we're running the UK numbers, the US numbers, France, Germany are all running at the same time. So we can try and, you know, help that way because our books are beautiful and they should be beautiful and we're known for that.

Lucy SB: 26:36

they are.

Flying Eye Team: 26:37

So we have to try and that's how we try and accommodate things.

Lucy SB: 26:42

book fairs, are these key moments for kind of the success of a title, or is it just something that's in the, the mix of the, the calendar and everyone just feels that they have to go now? What happens with these events?

Flying Eye Team: 26:52

so basically it's mainly from rights. They're rights first. So it's basically our coeds team are talking to publishers around the world, selling the rights to our books so that we can create these, you know, large print runs. And it's a good way to see everyone face to face, to discuss, you know, what's happening in the countries, how, how their book trade is looking. You get some nice early feedback because we're quite gonna these things 18 months, two years before a book's gonna be published. So. It's a really good way to get early feedback on, on the direction of the book, the artwork, whether the art star's gonna work for certain territories, that kind of thing. But it is, um, I mean, the food is brilliant if you wanted to go to Bologna, but we do sit there from nine o'clock in the morning to about six o'clock at night seeing different publishers every on for every half hour of the day. And you try and book in a time to go to the toilet, but, you know, sometimes that's not possible. You get into a role where you're talking about the same book so often that you can't remember whether you've already spoken about it to that. Um, so, so as, as, as fun as these things are, um, yeah, it's

Lucy SB: 27:51

it sounds grueling actually.

Flying Eye Team: 27:53

it's, it's quite and from, and the other side of the affairs is for editorial or for anyone in acquiring is we're doing that from the opposite side essentially. So

Lucy SB: 28:04

Mm, yeah.

Flying Eye Team: 28:06

I will be hot step in it from whole to whole. You know, I think the first, the first year that I wore my, like, Fitbit, which I don't have anymore possibly because that's, uh, two fair.

Lucy SB: 28:17

Trauma,

Flying Eye Team: 28:18

I did 27,000 steps just during the first day of the fair, and I just took it off. I was like, I don't, I don't wanna know.

Lucy SB: 28:27

I don't wanna, I, yeah.

Flying Eye Team: 28:31

Hole to hole.'cause as Kate said, it's every half hour. So you try and do like a 25 minute meeting, then use the five minutes to run the LX meeting. And when you're planning the in, you try and, okay, I'm gonna try and make sure that I see all of the French at the same time.'cause they're usually in the same place. I'm gonna see all the Germans at the same time, et cetera, et cetera. And it's up, down, up down, you know, and you're trying to take notes, see what's coming, see. And this is all to acquire for, you know, licensing or for, for coeds to do in translation. Which as I said at the start, we make most of our own books in house. So in my role at flying I, I have to do that a lot less. So I can spend a lot more time at the book fairs with flying nights, seeing illustrators. So I'll see illustrators from all over the world. I'll see, different art schools who come together. Um. We'll be meeting people from different types of media companies, you know, who might be interested in our books as well. So yeah, it, it's, don't get me wrong, I'm never gonna say, oh God, you're so terrible having to go to, like, I'm not gonna go that far. But it's, it's not, I don't think I've ever seen anything in Bologna apart from the very specific restaurants that you go to with clients specifically because most of the meals are working meals as well. And some pretty bad hotels.

Lucy SB: 29:54

Good insight there into the mysterious world. Hannah, I was gonna ask you about marketing. So I'm guessing that the sales and marketing is also very interlinked. If we talk about Detective Stanley in particular, how did that plan come together, and what were your considerations for how you were gonna market that book? Please can we have some Detective Stanley merch. I can see him on all sorts of things. I'd like him on. I'd like, I'd like it's the next. I think I could, I want everything in my house. Just about to get my kitchen done. I'd like some tea towels, please.

Helena: 30:26

Love We are always pitching. Merch ideas that would bankrupt the company basically.

Flying Eye Team: 30:33

like this demon. Um, so what we do actually is a sales marketing team. We all have a meeting once a month where we discuss campaigns that are a year ahead, and that's kind of our first conversation about what we want to do for that campaign. So in that meeting, we will look at, like Kate said, who the key audience are. So who are the, that are. To buy the book, but then also, which retailers are our key customers that are going to stock the book. and then from that and from also the unique selling points of each of the books or the content in each of the books, we will then look at various parts of a marketing and publicity campaign. So that can include POS. So for Detective Stanley, we made some bookmarks. And the purpose of those bookmarks was one, obviously to have beautiful bookmark who doesn't love a beautiful bookmark. It gives bookshops something they can give away for free. Um, either with a sale of the book or just in general, they can give away a bookmark for free. which is great'cause you can't always, we don't. Always have the money to spend on a new book. And it's nice for a child to be able to leave a bookshop with something, even if they can't always leave it with a book. So it was to spread the word, it was to give bookshops a free promotional item. But then also what we did with that was we put book two on the reverse of the bookmark so that everyone knew this was a series that we are really excited about. There will be a follow up, so if they like it, they can keep an eye out for book two. We also made some standees, so they were about a four size, so that they could go on tables in bookshops or they could go in a window. And it's just something, again, for customers to spot in the bookshop to draw their eye and to bring to Detective Stanley specifically. And for that we put Stanley. On a plain blue background'cause he does pop. It is quite Miffy. You are right. Um, background, uh, with the height of the book so that you've got the branding of the book and, and just a really engaging character. He is got his dear stalker hat on. He's got his magnifying glass, he's looking very, Sherlock Holmes. It just attracts that audience. The children that love mystery books, the parents that know that their kids love mystery books. yeah, so that's what we're doing with the POS. And then in terms of, things like publicity, so we'll send books out to journalists. So those are people that work for big broadsheets, but also, organizations like the NLT and SLA who are helping get books into the hands of children, and also influencers and bloggers who are on social media. So as part of that meeting we'll look at if there's anybody, specific that we want to send to that we don't normally send to, whether there's a genre, that we should be looking directly towards. And then also any potential events that we might do other author and illustrator available to do those. So in this example, like you've said, uh, Hannah and Erica are based on the other side of the world. Um, it's quite difficult sometimes when there are huge time differences to get things moving quickly. We're really that We have sales distribution team in Australia and New Zealand, um, and Harper Collins, New Zealand were great at helping us build events. Publicity within New Zealand because they have those contacts, they have those relationships, so that was great. They've painted a window in a, in a lovely local book shop to them, which is gorgeous.

Lucy SB: 34:17

a painted window.

Flying Eye Team: 34:18

Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it is absolutely stunning. Um, and there's stuff, there's like stuff that they've made that's in behind the window as they've also got us slots in newspapers and things like that with interviews. So yeah, it's a, there's a lot that we discuss and also we discuss social media, which I'm sure he will go into further. Um, but we discuss all of those ideas as initial ideas. And then as we get closer to publication date, we continue to develop these ideas until they come to fruition. And some of that is happening nine months in advance in terms of when we're speaking to our sales, our sales teams in the us, in Australia and in the uk. Uh, the UK comes a bit later than, than the us. But, or it can be three months before we might make an animated trailer, which Helena worked on. I'm sure she can talk more about to like reveal the cover, although, I dunno, cover reveal is really the right word anymore because we know what the cover looks like, but it's fun. and yeah, all the way up to past publication where, we don't just publish the book and then go, oh, job done. Uh, that's it. We carry on talking about it. We might make activity sheets that we can share, or we might have q and as with the, I'm treading on your territory, Helena. Sorry.

Helena: 35:37

It is all good. It's all good.

Lucy SB: 35:41

That's really interesting and, and I suppose when there's a sequel, then that's also an opportunity to re-go back and revisit the, the first book. And are you, Kate, would you be expecting the sales of the first book to kind of go up a little bit when the sequel comes out as well, is a, as a kind of.

Flying Eye Team: 35:56

Yes, absolutely. That's, yes, absolutely. We would, we would hope that would happen when we do, you know, when we publish book two, we will be putting, you know, pushing book one as well to get people in the start of the series. And just carrying on with, you know, the love for Detective Stanley. So yes, we would hope to see book one Sales Rise again.

Lucy SB: 36:15

Helena, I, I've got a bit of a cheeky question here. Is it possible to have a successful book launch without social media?

Helena: 36:22

Define success.

Lucy SB: 36:23

Come on, we're getting to the end of the podcast now. Let's

Helena: 36:26

uh, I mean. Ultimately, there's a lot of pieces to the puzzle, but I think in this day and age, you'd be slightly insane to leave out the social media side of things. Although it is a very interesting landscape at the moment, I feel, because there is such constant shift in terms of which platforms people are using. You know, whether it's video content, whether it's static content, you know, what people are gravitating towards trying to please the algorithm, trying not to annoy the algorithm, et cetera. But I think the way we, we've approached this, uh, flying eye just, I think is really wholesome, which is, it's, it's all visuals forward and very much being about what Flying Eye is about, which is about making beautiful things rather than it necessarily being sell, sell, sell. Which, um, makes my job a lot more fun. But I think it, it, it also makes it a much. A much softer kind of place to be and for people to come and follow us and see what we are doing. You know, you can come and follow along as an illustrator who might be a prospective creator, um, rather than just necessarily purely trying to sell things all the time, although that is technically my job. But, um, but I do, I do think it's very interesting, like keeping up with all the changes in social media and making sure that what we are doing is, is current, but not gimmicky and will make a splash, to our audience. Um, which is made up of a lot of people really, because we've got kind of, you know, obviously our, our, fundamental audience is the children, but

Lucy SB: 38:05

Yeah.

Helena: 38:07

the people we're selling to. Yeah. So we kind of have to go through, you know, a. Parents, which is kind of a different kind of content than say, teachers or librarians or, um, you know, we also, you have bookstores on there as well, which is really nice to have a dialogue with all the indie bookstores and promoting what they do as well. And that kind of, it's a nice mutual relationship there. I think the answer really is you can't have a, a splashy campaign that grabs a lot of attention without social media. But at the same time, I do think all of the things that go around that. Are, are just as important, you know, our newsletters that go out, our consumer newsletters, our newsletters that go out to the, to the educators, which is kind of different content because we do make a lot of content free, downloadable content for teachers and librarians that's on our website. And then again, like Hannah was saying, all the, the physical mailouts that go to our influencers and to various organizations with the physical product in it, which I think is super important because our products, like you said earlier, they're really beautiful. And I think all of those special finishes, you know, the holographic foiling and the spray edges and the, you know, the little Easter

Lucy SB: 39:23

a sucker for a sprayed

Helena: 39:25

you know, all of that, the end papers, all of the, the beautiful finishes. I think it's beautiful to get that out there. And we're a relatively small team, so. You know, that again feeds into the social content because we are passing it along to a huge network of people who are spreading the word for us,

Lucy SB: 39:45

Yeah.

Helena: 39:45

which kind of extends our reach. And, you know, they can do all sorts of interesting things with their videography and their filmography, and also kind of slotting us in amongst other titles where other people might not necessarily have heard of us or have thought of us. It And and then things like events, you know, having in-person author signings and all of those things where you kind of get a human face to, um, who's behind the books. The human side of it I think is really important. And I think that's what social media is, is really good at, because, you know, taking Detective Stanley as an example Hannah and Erica are in New Zealand, but it's really fantastic that we can bring their live window painting to our base in London and present that to. To our audience, which is global, which is fantastic.

Lucy SB: 40:37

I'm interested, you mentioned teachers and kind of resources for teachers. With through that social media lens. Is that an audience that you are specifically targeting or is that something you're try and do more through getting people to create their own content through like mailing out to bloggers and that sort of thing? I'm interested in how you tap into that audience, or is that maybe just not a, not a significant audience for the social media side of things?

Helena: 41:02

I don't know if it's the, you know, the, the bread and butter of our social media following, but it's absolutely an active part of it. There's a lot of really fantastic. Primary school teachers who are very active on social media and do their own book reviews and kind of have their own sort of kid lit accounts.'cause they're obviously, you know, immersed in it. Yeah. And they're really interested in it. when you have a book that really draws people in to create more material around it that can help it be used in the classroom.'cause I mean, it's interesting. I have a five-year-old daughter and, and she's in reception and this is my first year kind of seeing it happening live, but there's often books that are just trotted, you know, trotted out year after year after year after year after year, after year after year. And I can see why it happens. They're kind of staples, they kind of become classics and teachers know how to teach them and they, they're pressed for time, they're pressed for resources. So it's really nice when we're like, Hey. We've got this new book. You really like it. Here's a, um, a whole beautifully laid out, organized teaching notes, lesson plans, activity sheets, coloring sheets, all the things that go with it to kind of, you know, if it is something that is beautiful and eye catching, it also makes it more accessible to, to the teachers in our audience.

Lucy SB: 42:23

I definitely think those sorts of resources are great for shifting that. That habit of going back to the same books, because really what's happening there is that, well, one, schools don't have budget to buy new books, but two teachers also don't have time to, to completely reinvent their plans all the time. So giving teachers a starting point and is, is a really important way of trying to add new and exciting text into people's teaching practice, for

Helena: 42:46

absolutely.'cause I do see that the books my daughter comes back with, oh, a lot of them are brilliant, but a lot of'em are very old maybe a little bit dated,

Flying Eye Team: 42:54

But this, this is an issue. I mean, where do parents, teachers, carers, where does anyone go to get recommended a new title? You know, we say yes, less coverage of children's books. Mm-hmm. And you know, we can help as much as we can with visibility and word of mouth and resources and going to conferences with librarians, et cetera, and sort of talk about books. But ultimately people are gonna go for books they trust. And those are things that they read when they were children. Because we don't really, in the UK, have a big enough platform for children's books.

Lucy SB: 43:21

Yeah, this is very true and I think it is quite easy to be in a bubble where you think everyone else knows, like, because yeah, I mean, I've got a problem with books definitely. We're just trying to move out this part of the house so that we can renovate it and there's a lot of books. It's an issue, but I, you get into this mindset that, of course everyone knows about these, these authors and these titles, and really it's just your sort of bubble that you are in on social media or you know, the world that you are kind of interacting with.

Flying Eye Team: 43:51

Mm-hmm. Completely. And I think that is also part of our job with social media is to find those groups of people that there are, there are lots and lots of influencers online and there are lots of journalists that cover things that aren't books, but then also sometimes cover because they're to do with a certain topic. Although obviously they're not always our main concentration because we can't go to them again and again with a book because they don't cover that content of the time. It's really great to be able to include them when we find a book that is really relevant to them.

Lucy SB: 44:27

Yeah.

Flying Eye Team: 44:28

Spread something. That, I mean, basically everyone that works in children's publishing, I feel confident speaking on behalf of all of the people here do, like, I don't think what I'm about to say is controversial. Do it because they want children to read, because they want to make beautiful, wonderful books for children that children will enjoy and more children will read. Mm-hmm. So if we can, if we can reach more people, then that's, that's really our job as a sales and marketing team.

Lucy SB: 45:01

Hmm.

Flying Eye Team: 45:02

Faye and her teams have done the amazing job of making this beautiful book. It, it's our job to then go and find the people that, that want to read it and that will enjoy it. And obviously that's not every reader, not every book is for every reader, but I think, like you said earlier on in the conversation, there is that drop off after we move on from picture books. And again, there are so many studies that show. I mean, this is old rhetoric. Every, I feel like we all do know this, but sometimes it is good to be reminded that reading as a habit starts when you're a child. And continuing that on into adulthood is so good for everyone's mental health. It's really good to stress relief. it's good in general educational purposes, and that's not just nonfiction. I have a partner who is male and always feels like he needs to read nonfiction because he feels like he needs to consistently educate himself. And he's like reading, it's for education, for learning new things. And I'm like, but you watch TV to enjoy yourself, so why don't you read a fiction book? And, and he has started doing that more recently and he's like, yeah, like I get through the book so much quicker and I.

Lucy SB: 46:15

Yeah, Yeah,

Flying Eye Team: 46:17

Yeah, so we really just want to spread the word about our books as far wide as possible, not just because obviously as a business we need to sell books, but because that means that more kids are reading and more children are developing a love of reading, that will become a habit when they get older, and that's just useful for so many reasons, not Yeah, for so many reasons.

Lucy SB: 46:41

yeah. Completely agree. This has been brilliant. Thank you so much. I've learned loads. So to end the podcast, I always ask guests if we were to add one comic or book, usually book about comics, but you can, it could be anything to our two B red piles tomorrow. What would you recommend, Faye? I am coming to you first.

Flying Eye Team: 47:07

I,

Lucy SB: 47:08

I can edit out the long pause.

Flying Eye Team: 47:09

forgotten every book I've ever read. I dunno.

Lucy SB: 47:11

Okay. Okay. Kate, I'm coming to you first.

Flying Eye Team: 47:14

and so when I came to flying, like everyone I was talking to, like, brilliant, that's a great place to work. Have you read the Alexis Deacon Curse? The chosen what? I, I Amazing. The two

Lucy SB: 47:32

That's great. I actually haven't read that, but I did a course at the Royal Drawing School about graphic narratives making comics and, he was the tutor and I, he's great. Yeah. Yeah, I was in awe. Hannah, what would you recommend?

Flying Eye Team: 47:49

So it's a comic. I'm actually, or a graphic novel rather, that I'm reading at the moment. So I haven't finished it. But I am really enjoying it and it is beautiful. It's called Luna Boy by Jess and, uh, chin Wibo wo. and it is a really lovely story about a trans boy who comes from the moon to live on an. I'm not a hundred percent sure if it's a futuristic view of the current world or an alternative view of, of our world. Um, but yeah, it's all about being a new person in like in school and, um, dealing with that as well as dealing with being trans and being included in some parts of their, of their life and also struggling with other bits of it. But it's just really beautiful and it's in these gorgeous pastel tones. There's lots of things about people speaking different languages, um, and adjusting to a new language and there's lots of wonderful,

Lucy SB: 48:44

sounds really good. And is it like a YA or adult or what age range would you say

Flying Eye Team: 48:50

I am looking at the information it.

Lucy SB: 48:55

okay, cool. Mm, I haven't heard of that one. I'm gonna have a little look for that. Hena, what would you recommend us?

Helena: 49:02

I don't know if this is a copper answer, but somebody has to say, ruin the tail, tail of a thousand faces because, I mean, you know, it

Lucy SB: 49:11

It's amazing.

Helena: 49:13

It's, and it's also, you know, award-winning, what can we say? It has just won the Waterstones Children's Book Prize younger readers category. Um, but truly it is the, it is the book that I, I, um, I mean I've really enjoyed lifting from it for socials because there's such, such beautiful, just straight up, beautiful imagery in it. But I think it's just, I really love how it pulls so many threads in it from, you know, the protagonist being deaf and the way it seamlessly has magic fused with sign language, but also she eats waffles and cookies. And it's funny and it's, you know, I've gifted it to like a million children, but also, um, I have a copy that I make my friends read as adults because it's, it's just brilliant soro.

Lucy SB: 50:01

Yeah, I really love that. But I've just very recently read it and I've already told Elise three or four people about it.'cause I, yeah. Which is a good sign.

Helena: 50:09

Yeah.

Lucy SB: 50:10

Faye, back to you now. Have you had a time to scramble an idea together?

Flying Eye Team: 50:15

I was then gonna say, so thanks Thomas. It's my fault panicking at the start. And I'm kind of split between saying, uh, a book that we published, a book that hasn't come out yet, but I'm very excited about, very excited about, we just got copies in, you're Gonna Love The Sprayed Edge or a book that's not by us So I don't know.

Lucy SB: 50:38

Oh, go on. Should we let you do all three? Yeah, do do all of them? Go on What

Flying Eye Team: 50:42

you.

Lucy SB: 50:42

Special case?

Flying Eye Team: 50:43

I'm reading just a book that's not by us. I'm reading Young Hag the moment by,

Lucy SB: 50:48

I love young hag.

Flying Eye Team: 50:50

It's just absolutely smashing love Isabel Green book and also kill for an Arthurian legend like smash perfection. Loving it. Really, really brilliant. So that's great. But we've already published Ditching Saskia. Yes.

Lucy SB: 51:04

Also recently read that,

Flying Eye Team: 51:05

Okay.

Lucy SB: 51:05

also really enjoyed it.

Flying Eye Team: 51:06

Okay. Well you should recommend me books because we have similar taste and I love ditching Saskia because as you know, you already know it's an incredible, gorgeous story about, you know, grief and growing up and coming of age, um, and lots of different experiences that come along with that stuff. And I thought it was stunning and it's a gorgeous book. And a book that hasn't come out yet that, like I said, you're gonna love for many reasons, including the Spring edge is a comic we've got coming out in August. Yes. Called Froggy. Do you see how I had to look to Kate to make sure it was, the thing is we sent it to print months ago,

Lucy SB: 51:44

I'm interested. I was gonna ask that earlier. How, how, how far in advance is the book actually in existence? Forget about it by the time it comes out.

Flying Eye Team: 51:55

yeah. Well, I mean, we're just waiting for the, the resurgence because obviously we're constantly making 40 o books. So yeah, that's, that's a lot. But we did recently get copies in of Yeah, froggy, which is a brilliant, gorgeous comic about a frog a young frog called Froggy, uh, by Paige Walsh. And it is, it's just the most delightful, beautiful, like, it's so, it makes me so happy just looking at his face and it's just so funny. Yeah, I love, I love Rocky, so. Yeah, that's,

Lucy SB: 52:33

that. sounds great. I look forward to that. That sounds brilliant.

Flying Eye Team: 52:36

the the best thing actually about Froggy is that in my professional career I have now used in very professional meetings. I have told people how cute Froggy's Butt is. Yeah. Which we have a look at his, but, but, so

Lucy SB: 52:56

Excellent. Well, I look forward to frog froggy in his butts. Um, what a good way to end the podcast. Um, I would just like to say thank you so much, all of you for all your time. You are very busy, important people in the book world, so thank you so much for giving up time to explain to listeners and to me about the process. I feel like I've learned loads, and yeah, I'll definitely be looking at books in a different way when I pick them up and think about all the work that's gone on behind the scenes. So yeah, thank you for explaining that to everyone.

Flying Eye Team: 53:29

thank you so much. Thank.

Helena: 53:30

Thank you for having us.

53:33

There you have it. Thanks so much to the Flying It team for coming on the show. I loved having so many different voices hearing about all the different elements of the publishing house and how it works with creators to bring books to us. yeah, I found it really fascinating. Loved exploring that idea of social media, the role that influencers. Teachers, librarians who share online have in, in bringing books to our attention, I think is really, really fascinating. So yeah, lots more to think on and dwell on. As I let that episode sink in, I'm sure I'll have more to think about. Some ideas for future episodes from the back of that,'cause I did find it really, really interesting. My book recommendation, so many book recommendations. I can't believe I let the rules be bent so much on that episode. I was obviously in a good mood. I liked, I'm intrigued by Froggy and his cute butt. And it made me think of, I did treat myself recently to another frog themed graphic novel because froggy is not out yet it is a bit of an exclusive book. It's gorgeous. It's a stunning object. We talked with the flying item about the kind of the feel, the pleasing feel of a book in your hand and the way it's made, the way it's bound, and all of how all of that plays in. this book is not a flying eye title. this book is called A Frog in the Fall and later on by Linear Stir. And it is beautiful kind of pen and ink style illustrations of a frog and some toad on a journey. it's. Bound in the most stunning kind of spineless way. It's like a sketchbook. You're leafing through the pages of a sketchbook almost to explore this story. It's absolutely breathtaking. I'm not gonna lie. It's not cheap. When I said I treated myself, I did, it was 40 pounds to have this signed edition which is. A lot more than I would usually spend on a book, but I don't feel shortchanged. It is a really, really beautiful story, and the artwork is breathtaking in its minimalism and the way that it captures the characters. And I just, I mean, this is, seems like a weird thing to say, but frog's bodies are cool. Um, and the way that they're drawn, um, as characters in this story is really, really incredible. So, that's my frog themed recommendation. Thanks to a LCS for sponsoring today's episode. As you know, we often have writers on comic booms speaking about their work, and A LCS is a not-for-profit organization supporting its 120,000 plus members to collect money for all the secondary uses of their work, including things like photocopies, digital reproductions, even use in education, and they produced some fantastic resources as well to support educators. Explore important and very. Relevant topics, like plagiarism and copyright, and you can check those out on the link in the show notes. There's a range of different free resources for teachers available on the site. And I think especially in the age of ai, it's something we need to build children's awareness of. And they've also, just for your own reading, if you are really interested in AI and how that, blossoming, world of AI Is affecting authors, authors views on the situation and how we can put in better systems and processes checks to protect their work and their own intellectual property. There's a really interesting report on the A LCS website about that, so recommend that one if that's something that you are interested in. Thank you so much for your patience in waiting for this episode. There has been a few weeks longer than I expected. Calls mainly by. Things like holidays and building work in my house and it has thrown up the realization that, I was in fact right. It is gonna be very challenging to run the podcast whilst the real work is happening in my house'cause it's so noisy. Um, so we are gonna now do, as planned, we have to have five episodes and then a break. And then in the autumn term, this the other five episodes for this season of the podcast. And that'll be a lot smoother. You won't be left waiting for episodes to come out whilst nomadic drills are going on. So that is the plan. So we are gonna now take a little bit of a break for the summer. Thank you so much for your support on this mini season of Comic Boom. Such great guests., In this season, I'm still really, really, really keen to have more teachers, more, librarians talking about their work and their approach. I've definitely got a librarian lined up for the second half of this season. but. there's always room for more librarians. That is a fact. So if you're a teacher, an educator, a librarian, a youth worker, somebody working directly with children and young people using comics, I would absolutely love to have you on the podcast. You can contact me via any of the social media platforms that we are on. That is. Probably the best way to contact me through the comic Boom Instagram page at Comic Boom. Under podcast, you can actually send a message through the website podcast website as well. there's also Twitter at Lucy Braidley if you want to find me on there. And then also we are now on Blue Sky. Two, or you can find me, Lucy Starbuck Braidley on LinkedIn. So if you are an educator, a librarian, a youth worker, somebody working directly with children using comics, I would love to have some more direct examples on the podcast to share with people.'cause I think that's really, really important. but thank you all of our guests from this mini series. Thank you, all of the listeners for supporting the podcast. It's been an absolute joy to come back this year, and looking forward to bringing you five more exciting episodes in the autumn term. Don't you be worrying about what you're gonna listen to over the summer because there are 50 plus episodes of you to go back in, dip back into of comet. Boom. Check out that back catalog. There are some brilliant, brilliant episodes, so dig back through and find something that may, you may have missed the first time round or something that you want a little reminder of. Get your inspiration flowing. And tune into those, back catalog episodes. Whilst we're on our break, have an amazing summer. Look forward to, connecting back up with you all in the autumn. You've been listening to Comic Boom, which is produced and hosted by me, Lucy Radley. Thanks for listening.