Comic Boom - Comics in Education with creator Isabel Greenberg

In this episode Lucy chats to illustrator and graphic novelist Isabel Greenberg.

Isabel is a London based illustrator and writer and the author of three acclaimed graphic novels; The Encylopedia Of Early Earth (2015, Jonathan Cape, Little Brown), The One Hundred Nights Of Hero (2017, Jonathan Cape, Little Brown.) and her latest Glass Town (2020, Jonathan Cape, Abrams Books.)
She is the illustrator of a number of children’s books including One Hundred Billion Trillion Stars, Power Up and The Ocean In Your Bathtub (written by Seth Fishman. Greenwillow Books). As well as several history books with her sister Imogen published by Bloomsbury. 

Isabel studied illustration at the University of Brighton and an MA in animation at the Royal College of Art.

She is an associate lecturer at Camberwell College of Arts, UAL

This episode of Comic Boom is sponsored by ALCS, The Authors Licensing and Collecting Society.

Find our more about the Lakes International Comics Art Festival here.

Isabel's recommendations:
Roaming by Jillian Tamaki and Mariko Tamaki

Lucy's book post included:
A selection of titles from Scholastic:

My Big Fat Smelly Poo Diary by Jim Smith
Nina Peanut - Mega Mystery Solver by Sarah Bowie

Connect with Isabel:
Instagram: @isabel_greenberg

Follow the podcast:
Insta: @comic_boom_podcast
Twitter/X: @Lucy_Braidley
Contact: comicboompodcast@gmail.com

Music by John_Sib from Pixabay

All content © 2024 Comic Boom - Co

Transcript

0:06

Hello, and welcome to comic boom, the comics and education podcast. If you're interested in hearing more about the crossover between comics and education, then this is the podcast for you. My name is Lucy Starbuck Braidley and each week I'll be joined by a fellow educator, an academic, a librarian, or a creator of comics to discuss their journey into comics and provide some inspiration to influence your practice and hopefully shed some light on titles. You can bring into your libraries, classrooms and on your bookshelves at home too. This episode of comic, boom is sponsored by ALC S the authors licensing and collecting society. Hello, everyone. Welcome to this episode of comic boom, a little bit later than usual. Thank you for your patience has been a bit of a busy time over the last couple of weeks. Just wrapping up the summer holidays and getting the kids back into school, but we are back and with. Really an episode featuring Isabel Greenberg. Isabel is a London-based illustrator and writer and the author of acclaimed graphic novels. The encyclopedia of early earth, which was from 2015, the a hundred nights of hero, 2017. Glass town from 2020, and now very recently released young hag. In terms of 24, which we talk about quite extensively in this episode. Great YA. A graphic novel. All wrapped with Arthur in legend. really he enjoyed it. She's the illustrator of number of children's books as well. 1 billion trillion stars, power up the ocean and your bath tub, all written by Seth fishermen. As one of several history books that she's done in collaboration with her sister Imogen all published by Bloomsbury, Isabel studied illustration at the university of Brighton and has an ma in animation from the Royal college of art. We talked a little bit about that journey. In this episode, two. And she's an associate lecturer at Camberwell college of arts. So a wealth of experience involved in education herself, a brilliant storyteller. And I really enjoyed talking to Isabelle about her approach to her work. This episode is what to you in collaboration, in partnership with the lakes, international comics, art festival, we touch a little bit on that too. I talked to Isabel quite early in the year, So she hasn't fully fleshed out her plans for how she was going to work with lakes, international comics, art festival this year, but she's definitely going to be there. Representing her corner of the UK comics art scene. and just a reminder for everyone that at the end of September, it's last weekend of September, it's the lakes, international comics, art festival, as well as the program for adults, which is very much a kind of book festival format. If you've never been to a comics art festival, The calf is a bit more of a European format. So it's less of a Comicon, more a kind of something. If you've been to literature festivals that you will be very familiar with talks by creators. And things like that, a really wide range of comics creators from across the globe coming together to talk about their work. Yeah. I really, really enjoy going along. But alongside that, there's also a whole range of free activities put on by the Little LICAF team. for children and young people and those are, entirely free to access and definitely worth doing. So if you are up in that part of the country, I'm not in that pile country, but I will be making the journey. It was definitely worth it for me. but if you're nearby, take, take the kids across, and see what you can access over that festival period. It's well worth it. Anyway enough about Lex international comics art. First of all, although I could go on all day. let's hear what Isabelle has to say.

Lucy SB: 3:25

Hello Isabel, welcome to Comic Boom.

Isabel: 3:27

Hello. Thank you for having me.

Lucy SB: 3:29

you are so welcome. Can you tell us to start off a little bit about your journey as a comics reader? Where did that all start for you? Amazing. Yeah,

Isabel: 3:43

I wish I could say I was like reading comics from, the word go, but I think for me, like my journey, my parents weren't comic readers really. So I think there was no like early introduction and it was really like a case of me finding them for myself. And I think when I was at school, like they weren't graphic novels or manga in the school libraries, like that just wasn't a thing, you know. And I was a massive reader of all kinds of things, but I think it wasn't until I was about 14 or 15 that I kind of discovered comics. Um, I think for me it was more of a, I loved drawing and I loved writing and I had this sort of feeling that I wanted to do something combined the two. And when I came across comics, it was like this, ah, you know, this is a cool thing. You know, I remember, like, discovering, going to GOSH when it was in its original, location opposite the British Museum in London. And the first comic I bought was League of Extraordinary Gentlemen by Alan Moore. And I absolutely loved it, and I think I was really, like, blown away by the sort of possibilities of the medium. but I think I just, I felt I couldn't draw in that way and then a couple of years later when I was on my art foundation I came across Marjan Satrapi um and David B and the kind of more I guess indie comic scene and that was when I kind of realized that maybe the way I liked to draw could actually apply to comics. yeah, that was kind of how I decided to, to get into them myself. but after I read League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, you know, I was kind of on a quest to find comics I like to read. And I read quite a bit of manga after that as well as a teenager,

Lucy SB: 5:30

Have you got any shout outs for any particular titles that people might be interested in checking out from back in the day? And then also more current reads that you're interested in. We love to have, uh, yeah, some shout outs for titles on the podcast.

Isabel: 5:43

Um, what other stuff did I love? Oh my god, I read like I remember I was obsessed with this, like, 20 volume manga series. but I can't now remember the title of, but it was like, there was romance, there was this, like, quiet, you know, arty young girl, and there was a guy with a motorbike. and it spanned about 20 volumes, and I was obsessed with it. I can't remember the title, but maybe someone on the listening will know at the end.

Lucy SB: 6:09

Yeah. Yeah. I'd love that. Please tweet us if you, if you know what Isabel's talking about. I don't, so I can't help. But what do you think it was then about, about the comics form that drew you in, you, when you stumbled across it that makes it the storytelling form for you, okay, or one of the, The primary, I know you do animation and things like that as well, but, um, yeah, what is it that It makes it feel like it's the right fit for you, do you think?

Isabel: 6:35

I think until I discovered comics, I kind of, it had always felt to me like a choice, you know, like I loved art school, but I also loved English. It was always like, okay, well, I can either do a drawing thing or I can do a writing thing, you know, It didn't occur to me until that point that there was a place where I could do both and I think that that's why as a medium it really appealed to me and I think the reason why I guess i've stuck with it all these years is because You know, there's been moments where i've thought oh, maybe I could write a prose novel this time And then i've started writing and then i've been like, um, but I think i'll start drawing now as well um And I think it's just, what's quite exciting for me is. You can do, somebody once described comics to me as like being, I'm not sure who described this, but you know, again, shout out to the person who coined this. Um, as it being like, you're, you're making a film and you're every single person on the production crew, like you're the writer, the director, the set designer, the location scout, the costume designer,

Lucy SB: 7:42

yeah.

Isabel: 7:43

get to do everything. And that is really exciting for me. And I also think that comics kind of. Sit in this really magical place between films and. Books I think that's what the magic of them for me is.

Lucy SB: 7:56

And I'm just thinking around your, your books in particular and what you're saying then you're playing all these roles and about the importance of world building in your narratives that you create. That seems to be a real feature. Is that something that, that you really sort of relish?

Isabel: 8:10

Yeah, absolutely. And I think, when I was growing up, the kind of books I loved to read were kind of epic world building kind of fantasy things like Ursula Le Guin, Philip Pullman, The sort of worlds you kind of dive in and the world feels sort of so, you know, you're sad when you leave it when the book finishes, that sort of thing. And I think those are the books I love, so I've always wanted to kind of write that kind of material too. And I think I'm also interested, I guess, in the concept of world building as a kind of creator anyway, which is kind of why I wrote my last graphic novel, Glass Town, anyway, because I sort of got interested in the topic, the sort of Bronte's childhood world building, juvenilia. I definitely got into it kind of because of an interest in world building rather than necessarily because. Of an interest in the Bronte specifically.

Lucy SB: 9:03

Can you tell us a little bit how you became to be an illustrator? Because I just think there's this, this podcast is primarily aimed at teachers, librarians, people working with young people who might have these aspirations. And yet it's not obviously their career path was to become a teacher. It's not something they're necessarily familiar with how to nurture. These, the illustrators, the writers of the future. So, you know, I'm interested to know a little bit about that journey. And I guess which of your educational experiences you think was sort of really influential?

Isabel: 9:30

I mean everyone gets gets there in different ways. So I don't want to say that, like, my journey was the only way to do it, but, like, I did my, I did a degree, I did an art foundation and then a degree in illustration. I think there's, there is now, and there certainly wasn't when I was applying for art school, but there are now, I think, specialists. Courses you can apply for in comics, but I did a very general illustration course And it was kind of like very much. I took to the course. I took my interest in comics with me none of the tutors on my course were particularly into comics So there was nobody really there pushing that particularly as, as a area of illustration. So it was definitely very much something I took myself there. And that was something I think that I, yeah, as I say, discovered as a, as a teen. I think like the best thing schools can do is fill their libraries with. Comics and manga. And I think, and I would love it if like comics, graphic novels, comics, whatever, could find their way onto the national curriculum as well. I think that would be incredibly exciting. Rather than just being treated as this kind of, Oh, they're really useful to get kids into reading, Or, Oh, you know, if you like that sort of thing, you might like this, Or You'll be so surprised when you discover that Comics can be about serious things, too. It's bizarre to me how, like, that same, those same sort of, like, newsflash headlines, like, it's a comic, but about serious things, are still pervasive, and it's slightly frustrating, because I think readers understand it, creators understand it, but, there's not enough respect for the medium in the kind of cultural canon, like, um, you know, I was looking at Karrie Fransman and, her organization, which I'm really sorry, I've forgotten the name of,

Lucy SB: 11:19

Seasick?

Isabel: 11:20

yes, CSIC, I was fascinated by the research that they did, you know, saying, you know, they were saying that basically like poetry is better funded than comics. And I'm not saying poetry shouldn't get any funding. Everyone should get funding, but seemed, like, really strange to me that that was the case, you know, given how many people read comics,

Lucy SB: 11:41

Yeah, exactly, yeah.

Isabel: 11:43

And I think it's just this perception that comics aren't a serious medium,

Lucy SB: 11:46

Yeah, and I think it's really hard, I definitely think that there's a situation where, the people that don't think that, the people that love comics, that understand them, that are, you know, immersed in them, are passionate about them, find each other, and then you kind of, you can kind of get, you know, Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Then you sort of feel like there's no issue here. Everyone loves comics. Everyone I know loves comics.

Isabel: 12:10

think,

Lucy SB: 12:10

you don't realize that it's still out there.

Isabel: 12:12

yeah, and I think people, there's loads of people who love comics in the UK, you know, I think it's a small but, like, You know, exciting scene, but I think what's really frustrating to me as a creator is that like It feels like a scene that's just desperate to be made more available and made bigger, you know but it's like the gatekeepers Like why are there no major graphic novel awards? Why aren't why are graphic novels out? Rarely, I can think of two instances in the last like 15 years that a graphic novel has ever been nominated for a major literary award. Why are there never, there should be graphic novels at every single literary festival. And the only time there's ever a graphic novel at like Hay or Edinburgh or whatever, is if it's perceived to be about something highbrow and literary, or it's in the children's tent. you know, it just makes me really irritated. And there's only like, a couple of mainstream reporters that will review comics, so yeah, you know, I think it's frustrating because it does feel like it's ready, it's been ready to happen for years, the Kind of more mainstream Cultural gatekeepers aren't somehow ready to let it happen. I don't know. I don't know. What do you think?

Lucy SB: 13:22

Yeah, I completely agree. I think that, there seems to be a shift in conversation. I do still agree with you that the conversation around children's comics does start with, oh, it's great for reluctant readers a lot of the time. I think I twitch when people say that. It's like, not just, not just, yes it is, yes they are, but also, and everyone else.

Isabel: 13:39

Hmm?

Lucy SB: 13:39

but I think that there has been a real shift In children's graphic novels, comics, recently, but I, yeah, I think you're right in terms of the adult's side of things, that still does feel very separate, doesn't feel part of the conversation,

Isabel: 13:54

but then you know, I Think what's exciting to me is that the fact that younger readers are reading them with such like enthusiasm These readers are going to age out of

Lucy SB: 14:05

Future Jen, Yeah,

Isabel: 14:07

you know, the children of the future, et cetera.

Lucy SB: 14:09

Yeah. Did you have to fight any, and I'm, some people have referenced that it was actually making comics was, illustration courses, the comics, making a comic was sort of a little bit frowned upon. hopefully that's not a current perception, but is that something that you ever came across?

Isabel: 14:26

It wasn't, like, precisely frowned upon, but I would say that, yeah, like, I definitely got the impression that when I would bring work to Crits, it was never particularly well received, you know, so I think there was a time period where I kind of stopped taking comics to Crits because, I wanted to get, you know, I wanted my work to be received well, and it didn't feel like it was particularly appreciated. but I think it's completely different now, where I teach, like, so many of the students are making comics all the time, and you go to small press fairs and stuff, and there's always tables from different art schools and graduates and students, so I think the culture around, you know, the kind of illustration, traditional illustration courses attitude to comics has done a complete, you know, 360 since I was a student, definitely. And that's, that's a really positive. thing.

Lucy SB: 15:12

Yeah, that's really positive. I know we spoke about prizes earlier briefly, and I know that you won, the Observer Jonathan Cape graphic short story prize. what was that experience like? Was that a real springboard for you? Did it change your kind of your plans for career or was it just a boost on the way of what you're already planning?

Isabel: 15:31

Yeah, no, it was a massive deal for me really. And I think like I'd entered the competition a couple of times when I was a student. and I entered it again, I think it was the year after. I graduated and I didn't really, at that point, have a kind of master plan of what I was going to do exactly. I was like being an after school nanny doing small press fairs. and I think my life plan was just to kind of keep doing that and eventually try and, I don't know. I don't know. I was like, I didn't have a plan. I was just plugging I know I had a vague plan in that I knew I wanted to write graphic novels and I think I thought I just needed to find a day job that would allow me to do that. so, yeah, the Observer Jonathan Cape prize, as it was then, was really important for me because I think every entry was looked at by someone at Jonathan Cape. And after I won the prize, I got a phone call from my now editor, Dan Franklin, and he said, do you have any ideas for a graphic novel? And I didn't really, but I thought I'll better think of some quickly. and I was also approached by a literary agent who'd seen my. Story in the paper and, you know, one asked if I wanted representation. Those two things were like, were massive and, um, really changed things for me. And having a first book deal was amazing. I was also like incredibly lucky with my first book. I think it came out at a real moment when there was a sort of sudden interest again in graphic novels. So it came out a kind of just the right moment really. but in terms of like, did I fulfill my cunning, cunning life plan? I did eventually stop becoming a nanny and got a job teaching at the A university is my day job, which I still do. Comics still aren't really my, like, full time day job. I don't know many people for whom they are. So it's like kind of 50 50 for me, really, in terms of teaching versus comics and illustration.

Lucy SB: 17:22

you find that process of supporting other illustrators in their journey, what do you learn from your students? What do you hope that they learn from you?

Isabel: 17:32

I think it's really important to remember Like, I feel like it's really important to remember as a, like, teacher or whatever that it was a really, each year, like, I get further away from their experience.

Lucy SB: 17:46

Mm,

Isabel: 17:46

you know, when I was in my twenties and I was a, like, new, kind of, lecturer on an art foundation course, like, I wasn't that much older than the students, but now, You know, I really now, you know, there's quite a big time lapse between us now. And I think I one of the policies or the ethos is, I think that is often talked about where I teach is that the students are the experts, you know, so whatever it is that they're interested in or they're making work about, you know, they, they know more about it than you. And I think that's a really nice thing to remember. Like they're always. Showing, like bringing references and things, you know, to college that they're interested in or passionate about. And I think that's very exciting. yeah. And I think often you can give someone advice and then a few hours later, I'm like, huh, I should, that was good advice. I should take that on board myself.

Lucy SB: 18:43

Can we talk a little bit specifically about your kind of, well I want to talk about Young Hag in detail, later on, which I just absolutely loved it, I've just read it. I knew, it was one of those things, I knew I was going to like it, because I'm aware of your work, I've read some of your stuff before, I knew I was going to like it, but I really, really, really liked it. your writing for me it's got a really distinctive voice, it's witty, the characters say things that are just really real but you're not necessarily expecting them to say, and I, I just think that you've kind of crossed this boundary of writing for adults and writing for children but it seems quite effortless and I just wonder if that's a conscious approach in terms of, you know, not trying to write too young for readers when when that's something that could be accessed by younger readers or sort of how much you think about your reader really when you're writing. Yeah.

Isabel: 19:31

like there's no reason why any of my books couldn't be read by. a younger audience and it was after, after my first book, which was technically, you know, technically it was marketed for adults. And when I realized that younger people were reading it, that was actually, I was really excited by that. And I think since then I've often thought with my book, Books, you know, how much I want to make sure there is a crossover appeal. so young hag in America is being entirely marketed as a young adult book. Whereas here it's kind of more, it's just in the kind of general graphic novel crossover area, but, um, you know, yeah, in America it's completely why a, And I think that's quite exciting for me, really.

Lucy SB: 20:13

Does it have, will it be like a different cover and things like that

Isabel: 20:15

it's a slightly different cover. and they've added a kind of extra bit onto the title.

Lucy SB: 20:20

I saw that, yeah.

Isabel: 20:22

Young Hag and the Witch's Quest. which I'm not like totally sure why. I think hag is maybe a less used word in America, maybe. But anyway, I decided it wasn't the hill I was gonna die on, and I thought, you know, it's okay, that's, I'm not gonna dig in on this one.

Lucy SB: 20:39

For people who might not have read the book yet, can you give us a little bit of a synopsis of Young Hag before we talk about it further?

Isabel: 20:45

so Young Hag is a, young witch in a kind of, living in a sort of fantasy Arthurian Britain. and the book opens at her coming of age ceremony when she thinks she's going to come into her magical powers. Um, she lives with her mother and her grandmother, and the three of them are kind of a coven. But, after her coming of age ceremony, her grandmother basically explains to her that there's this, like, family curse that means that they lost their magic and they have this broken sword and Young Hag's grandmother is about to kind of explain to her the kind of backstory of this family quest and this broken sword and this curse. But then, something happens and she never tells Young Hag the story. I won't spoil what happens. but essentially the book is sort of Quest, a classic quest narrative, and she sets out to basically, um, break the curse and mend the mythical sword. But as she goes, she kind of starts to discover that a lot of the stories that her grandmother's always told her, which are kind of riffs on the Arthurian legends, are. kind of her family history, rather than, distant tales.

Lucy SB: 21:50

What is it that attracts you to those kind of, those Arthurian legends, the stories of the past? What do you think? Makes you want to immerse yourself.

Isabel: 22:01

I think when I was a kid, I always found like immense comfort in reading and imaginary worlds, like many children, you know, and I think I remember that feeling as a child of loving a book so much that you were just sad. You were devastated when it ended. Um, you know, and you couldn't stop reading and you'd be like walking down the street, holding a book because you just so desperate to keep reading. And I think that's all often down to sort of the immersive escapist quality of world building you know, like I still find certain book worlds immensely comforting. I read, there was lots of different like King Arthur adaptations. I remember reading as a kid and they always struck me as really like, again, just like part of that magical world of childhood, I suppose. Um, you know, and it's, it's, the stories are so familiar. They were really pervasive in pop culture. I really loved, there was like a kind of, Early noughties BBC adaptation with Sam Neill as Merlin and,

Lucy SB: 22:59

I don't know why I laughed at that.

Isabel: 23:02

was just so good. I absolutely loved it. And like just stuff like that. I always remembered. And I think, when I was thinking about what I'd like to make a book about, I kind of thought, oh yeah, I think it's maybe time I dig in there.

Lucy SB: 23:16

Mm. And I loved the, female characters and the intergenerational relationships going on and it felt quite kind of feminist approach to the stories of the past which aren't always known for their feminist, ideals. Was that kind of modern spin on it really important to you as well

Isabel: 23:35

Yeah. I think, I think there's a lot of like talk about feminist retellings of things and I think that if you try and retell something with the eyes of someone from the 21st century and you're retelling stuff that's from many hundred years ago, I think it's always going to seem there's naturally a contemporary voice is going to come through and

Lucy SB: 23:58

Mm.

Isabel: 23:59

modernize it and that's the way it should be.

Lucy SB: 24:02

Yeah. I'm super fascinated by your use of colour. it's stunning, it's beautiful to look at, but it's also, it feels really, like, purposeful, and that it's, you know, The color is part of the storytelling. And I wondered if you could talk to us a bit about your use of color, because the it's like really exciting to see different, color palettes being used and how did you develop that approach?

Isabel: 24:25

in a way, I've always, I've actually always kind of struggled with color, and I don't think it's something that necessarily comes, like, naturally to me. And so, it's definitely something I had to work on, And I think because I found it easier to use limited color palettes, I enjoyed sort of playing with the idea of using different limited color palettes to indicate different, Sort of narrative strands or time jumps. Um, so I think for me, color became a, has become a really useful narrative tool. So that's, yeah, that's something I've, I enjoy doing.

Lucy SB: 25:01

and do you spend, is that something that you are like, specifically map out and think like this, this aspect of the story I'm gonna do in these five colors, this one I'm gonna do in that? Or is it, is it a little bit, is it less planned and more organic than that?

Isabel: 25:14

It's quite organic. Like I think, again, I think on account of me not being amazing with color, I often have to like play around quite a lot. so when I first start, when I'm like in the sort of artworking stage, I'll kind of end up coloring a few pages to see. If I like the palette or if it works and, I do end up working it out as I go along quite a bit. once I've kind of settled on it, it'll, you know, then, then it's just a case of kind of doing what you've designed. but, yeah, it's, it's definitely quite organic. And with like, with Glass Town, for example, it was easier in that I knew that there were, there was the past, which I wanted to be sepia toned, the present, which I wanted to be kind of blues and grays. And then the imaginary world was going to be sort of technicolor. And so that like really brightly colored so that it kind of stood out. And so those, it felt very important to differentiate those three plot strands because otherwise It was going to get quite confusing to the reader, especially because often the settings and the characters were crossing over all three.

Lucy SB: 26:15

Yeah. Yeah. It really works.

Isabel: 26:17

I was so late on my deadline for that one that that was the only book I've ever actually got any coloring assistance on. And that was quite strange. Cause I've had to explain my process to somebody. So I had to be like, here's my color palette. Here are my layers and that was when I realized how totally chaotic I was when I had to explain it to someone else.

Lucy SB: 26:35

Air your laundry. and what is your creative process? Are you writing a script fully out first? How does the story come together to create the final book?

Isabel: 26:49

It's kind of, so the writing, I always do writing first and it tends to be a mix of kind of prose and dialogue. so I'll write out kind of, there might be like chunks of script with kind of sections of description. So I know what's going to happen and some of the description might stay, in kind of. In panels, whereas some of it will go if I, you know, often I'll find that when I start penciling, I might have described something and then I draw it instead. So it can be cut out, or I might find that actually I really like the kind of voice and I'll want to leave it in. So I tend to write more than I end up using. And it's a kind of process of Playing with the panels and deciding what's going to go where and what words I need and what words I don't need as I'm penciling.

Lucy SB: 27:40

And then is the artwork itself a combination of on paper and digital to get to

Isabel: 27:46

Yeah.

Lucy SB: 27:47

pieces?

Isabel: 27:48

Yeah. So I'll do my like super roughs, my first stage roughs often on the iPad or in a sketchbook, then the final artwork, the line work is all done by hand. so I just use Palomino black wing pencils. And that's it. It's just all I use pretty much exclusively that previous books. I used to use ink and a brush, but, um, the last two I've just used Palomino's. And then I scan it in and color it digitally so that you can kind of retain the texture of the line and the pencil, but kind of, I like the color to be very sort of flat so that it's the texture of the line work and the. Paper itself that gets to shine through. For me, digital stuff is like, it's really useful for coloring, for cleaning up. I like to add the text. Um, and I also, you know, I enjoy using my iPad for roughs, but I'd never do my, I've never found it possible to do my actual artwork on it. I think, it's partly a scale thing. Like. I don't like the size of the screen, um, and also, I think you start to know what brushes you're seeing, and that irritates me, There's something for me about, the way that you can work over and over and over into an image, lots of people use it in different ways, but for me, I find that I end up over perfecting. So I rub out and draw again and again and again and again until I think I'm getting it perfect and then I'll suddenly zoom out and realize it was a terrible drawing. Whereas if I'm working on paper, you kind of have to commit a bit more to the line and I think that kind of Makes me better.

Lucy SB: 29:29

Yeah, I've just, I've been reading a lot recently of Linda Barry, um, and I was just reading something last night You don't have to think your liver looks good in order for it to be functioning properly, and it's the same with a picture, like with your drawings, like you don't, it doesn't have to be perfect for it to be the right thing that's communicating, is communicating what you want it to communicate, and I just thought that's a really good kind of way of framing it, and for me anyway, it spoke to me in terms of not trying to be too perfect and just thinking about whether or not it's serving its function.

Isabel: 30:02

Yeah, yeah.

Lucy SB: 30:02

this episode will form part of our little special Comic Boom Lakes International Comics Art Festival mash up episodes. This is the second year we've done it. It's really exciting. So, I wondered if you could talk a little bit about what your plans are and just talk a little bit about the festival in general.

Isabel: 30:20

Excited to attend really and see and see What, it's like in the new in the new venue.

Lucy SB: 30:24

recently, is it, was it, is it through l AF that you went to the Toronto Comics Art Festival or was that as a separate.

Isabel: 30:31

Uh, yes, that was through LickAff.

Lucy SB: 30:33

And so what, can you tell us a little bit about that? There was a group of comics artists sort of representing the British, British comics

Isabel: 30:40

it was very exciting. They took six creators out to Toronto, which was really cool. Um, and we all kind of showed a few books on a couple of big tables. It was really exciting. I think, you know, it's really I think it's quite rare to get an opportunity like that and I've wanted to go to TCAF for many years, but it's so, you know, it's so prohibitively expensive getting over to, um, international comic festivals that, you know, you can only really go if you're invited as a guest and I think, you know, sort of paid for guest and it's quite rare to get those invitations really. So, It was a really exciting opportunity to go out there, and yeah, see the festival, and it was a really, you know, amazing festival, like, such an exciting breadth of work, really exciting creators, it had a really, like, great vibe as well, there was sort of real mix of work, lots of political work, lots of queer work, lots of radical work, lots of indie stuff, but also main, like bigger publishers too. It was a really great mix.

Lucy SB: 31:41

sounds really exciting. Did you discover, can you remember the names of any creators that you've kind of stumbled across? Did you, did you? Did you buy, did you manage to keep your purchasing under control, because that's what I'm not very good at at the moment, at going to

Isabel: 31:55

I thought there was lots of like, I mean there was just so much great stuff. I got a couple of books signed by like big create big Canadian creators, so. I got, the new Jillian Tamaki and I got it signed, which was really cool. And it was, it's a really amazing book. Roaming, the new graphic novel. I love that. and I got, Carol's new novel and got the graphic novel and got that signed by them as well. So yeah, it was a really very cool festival and, you know, Toronto as a city was you know, really exciting as well.

Lucy SB: 32:25

Yeah, I've never been. That sounds brilliant. So we're nearing the end of the podcast now. I wondered if you had, few thinking points, things learned from working in education, comics, just a few points to leave out. listeners thinking on? Have you got any, any sort of summary points that you'd like to, to leave us thinking about?

Isabel: 32:47

I mean, maybe read my book, that would be nice, I suppose. Bug myself a bit, I guess. I

Lucy SB: 32:53

read, should read, it. There'll be, I'll put a link into the show notes as well so people can find it. So our final, final, final thing is if we add, one comic now this one can't be your own so one comic, or book about comics to our to be read Piles tomorrow what would you recommend and why?

Isabel: 33:13

I think, because I've just been talking about it, the Gillian and Marie Kotamaki graphic novel Roaming, which I bought back from Canada, It's just beautiful. It's a really warm story about three, um, students who go to spend spring break in New York in the 90s. And they, I think it's the late 90s, early noughties, they have like flip phones and stuff, so I'm guessing it's them. Um, and

Lucy SB: 33:42

I like the fact that we can date things now by the phones

Isabel: 33:44

Yeah, but it's this really kind of sort of nostalgic tale about, it's just like these three students and the kind of dynamic between them, there's two very old friends who've known each other since they were kids, and then this new friend from one of their college lives, and they kind of come together in New York, and the tensions kind of arise in terms of like, You know, um, discovering sexuality and exploring this sort of place and the things they both, that they're all three of them are bringing to this trip that, kind of clash with each other. Um, and it's really, I really loved it. And particularly, the sort of, there's these really amazing, Like, sweeping spreads of New York and things in New York City that I've just found utterly delightful and kept turning the pages back to look at them over and over again. So yeah, that's my, the thing I, the comic I read most recently that I enjoyed, so I'd say add that to your, to your pile.

Lucy SB: 34:43

That sounds brilliant. That's really pulled me in. Thank you for that recommendation. And thank you for joining me on the podcast today. It's been great to talk to you. I've learned a lot and I look forward. I'm, I'll hopefully be going to LCAF. So yeah, I look forward to hopefully bumping into you there. I should probably ask what your next project is. We know we haven't had that conversation. Have you got anything coming up? What, what are you working on at the moment?

Isabel: 35:06

I'm illustrating a graphic novel that someone else has written at the moment, actually. Which is quite a new thing for me. so it's coming out in 2025. I think I can talk about it now. It's called the novel life of Jane Austin and it's written by this Austin expert called Janine Barkas. and I'm the illustrator on the project. So that's one thing I'm working on. that's quite exciting. And that'll be out in time for Jane Austin's 250th, um, Oh my gosh, I'm gonna say death day, but I'm wondering now if I've got that wrong and it's birthday. I think it's death day, it must be death day. Anyway, there's a centenary, a 250th centenary of Jane Austen, and the book is coming out, um, to align with that. So yeah, that's quite a different project for me, Not being the writer and I'm kind of working on a new idea that's very, very early. But I'm quite interested at the moment in the conflict between being a creative and being a parent. I'm a parent to a four year old and I'm very interested in that kind of push and pull. Um, so my next project is going to be sort of to do with parenting and being a mother, but in a, obviously in a highly fantastical way because I really don't like to draw the trappings of modern life. So there will be no toasters, there will be no bottle sterilizers.

Lucy SB: 36:32

Um, that's super interesting. I feel like this is a, as a, as a mom of three children, um, who are all in exile in their bedrooms at the moment and do very well, actually haven't interrupted once. Um, did you, did you find that it, that, that becoming a parent did change your, your approach to your work?

Isabel: 36:50

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think, Young Hag, I began it just after I came off maternity leave and I wasn't able to dive into months and months of research in a way that I would have before and think about things for ages. And so I think You definitely have to take time when you have it. And that means that you don't have the same luxury of kind of lingering on things. So I think it's, it's made my process maybe more decisive. But also I think when you do something creative, it's like, that's another child kind of thing or another responsibility that has to be looked after. like I might come up with an idea on Friday afternoon, but I can't write it down until Monday.

Lucy SB: 37:35

Yeah.

Isabel: 37:38

and I think that's something that is quite maybe specific to if you do something creative that you love and you want to keep doing it and you want to make art or whatever, but there's also this other like incredibly important thing that you have to do too. And you want to do them both well. So yeah, those are things I guess that I think are probably going to feed into my next project.

Lucy SB: 38:00

That sounds really, really interesting. I've loved talking to you, thank you so much, it's been lovely and, you've talked about so many interesting things, this is going to be a brilliant episode for the podcast, so thank you very much for joining me today.

Isabel: 38:11

thanks for having me, it's been really nice.

38:15

Thank you so much to Isabel for spending time to talk through her work, her approach to comics creation and her life as a comics reader as well. Really, really interesting. Um, some great recommendations too. I've already recommended young hag on an earlier episode of this season of comic booms. As some of you may have got hold of a copy. I don't know, but I did really enjoy the story. I love. Isabel style. So definitely wanted to look out for, I'd say it's probably for 13, 14 year olds plus. right up into adult readers. but that's always really subjective. Isn't it? There might be people who think it's also suitable for younger readers. Um, but that would be kind of where I'd place it more, more of a way as well. I've got more book posts this week, as you can tell by the slightly later than usual timing of this podcast episodes, or if you've been waiting for it. But I've been really busy. I haven't had any, I actually had a chance to sit down and read these books yet, but they are in my to be read pile. And in the book postbag, I've received the brilliantly titled my big fat smelly poo diary by Jim Smith. a former winner of the lollies Jim Smith. Is that to be really funny book. I'm a big fan of advocate of humor in books. I think, you know, it doesn't have to be serious all the time. We can be a bit silly. And enjoy that and encourage that in, in children's reading habits and not look down on it. So a bit of gross humor certainly appeals to the younger readers in my house. they gravitated to this when it arrived. I really liked their simple, accessible drawing style too. I can really imagine children creating their own stories, using the characters Petro. Olga and Ozzie. Uh, I think that that would be great sort of spinoffs coming from children where they take characters from things that they've read and different media that they come across and put it into that own work. I'd love to see some of that happening with this title. I would say six plus, but again, it's super subjective. So have a little look for yourself and make that decision yourself. Published by Scholastic. And another one from Scholastic that I received for younger readers has also made its way to my to be read pile. Let me just grab it. And that is nina peanut mega mystery solver. Quite hard to say. This really appeals to me and I'll definitely be sitting down and spending some time reading it. Number one, appeals to me because of the S by Sarah Bowie, by the way, number one appeals to me because of female protagonists, but also it's a ghost stories. Mystery. Sit in the school, things that I enjoy. And again, really super accessible doodly kind of drawing style, but I could see, you could encourage, people to start drawing their own comics, really colorful as well. So I really liked the look of that. It's a nice size. It feels good in your hand too, which is a bit of a book nerd thing to say, but it's true. So, yeah, both of those keep an eye out for those both by Scholastic. and I'll be sending down to read those over the coming weeks. And we have one more recommendation coming your way or set of recommendations, I should say. Because we've got another little chat mini chats with Barbara, the CEO of ALCS, our sponsor, the authors licensing and collecting. society. And Barbara is just joining us today. To give us some of her recommendations for our to be read pile. So here's what Barbara had to say. There we go. Thanks Barbara. For those recommendations. Nice to have something a bit different recommended and podcasts, not a genre that I massively read from sort of historical novels. but yeah, really interesting to hear what other people's reading habits are like. So that's it, that's it for today. Thanks so much for your patience and waiting for this episode to come out. I just wanted to link to something that Barbara was saying there. So the other big part of my life outside of the podcast is my job at the national literacy trust where I run the school libraries programs. And Barbara was very kindly flagging some of our campaign work that we do, trying to put a solution to the fact that one in seven primary schools across the UK, do not have a library. And that those schools that are in areas of financial disadvantage, they're much more likely not to have a library search, these very same children who don't have access to books at home. Also not having a library that they can take them out from easily at school too. So that's what we're campaigning to try and do something about, and also working with lots of different funders to run programs that. Improve the library provision in primary schools across the UK. You can find that out on their website by searching libraries for primaries or national literacy trust. So thanks Barbara for flagging that it's all really important work and very much linked to. What everybody that listens to this podcast is really passionate about, which is putting stories into the hands of children and young people. That's it for me today. Thanks so much for listening as always, you can keep in touch with me via the link in the episode via. Twitter at Lucy underscore Bradley or via Instagram on at comic underscore boom underscore podcast. I'd love to hear from you. My name is Lucy Starbuck Braidley and the producer and host of comic. Boom. Thanks for listening.