Comic Boom - Comics in Education with Athens Comics Library's Lida Tsene

In this week's episode Lucy chats to passionate comics advocate Lida Tsene.

Lida is Head of PR, Art and Educational Programs of Comicdom Con Athens, founder of the Athens Comics Library, managing co-director of the Digital Comics Museum, organiser and curator of several events, exhibitions, conferences and workshops. Currently, she is a researcher and teaching associate at the MA Program Communication and New Journalism of Open University of Cyprus, at the MA  Cultural Management of Hellenic Open University and at the MA Rhetorics, Humanities and Education of NUA. 

She has participated in international conferences on media, digital media, entrepreneurship, storytelling and social impact, while she also designs and facilitates workshops applying design thinking and team-building methodologies.

Lida's recommendation:
Dragon Hoops by Gene Luen Yang

Lucy's recommendation:
Zatopek by Jan Novak

This episode of Comic Boom is sponsored by ALCS, The Authors Licensing and Collecting Society.
The ALCS Carnegie Awards resources highlighted in the episode can be found here.

Connect with Lida:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PPoucette
Twitter/X: @lidatsene
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lidatsene
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lidatsene/

Find out more about Lida's work:

• athenscomicslibrary.gr
• comicdom-con.gr
• comicsmuseum.gr

Follow the podcast:
Insta: @comic_boom_podcast
Twitter/X: @Lucy_Braidley
Contact: comicboompodcast@gmail.com

Music by John_Sib from Pixabay

Transcript

0:09

Hello, and welcome to comic boom the comics and education podcast. If you're interested in hearing more about the crossover between comics and education, then this is the podcast for you. My name is Lucy Starbuck. Braidley. And each week I'll be joined by a fellow educator, an academic, a librarian, or a creator of comics to discuss their journey into comics and provide some inspiration to implement your practice and hopefully shine some light on some titles that you can bring into your libraries classrooms, and hopefully onto your bookshelves at home too. This episode of comic, boom is sponsored by ALCS the authors licensing and collecting society. And today I am joined by lead at Lida Tsene is passionate about communication. She holds a degree in communication, media, and culture, and a PhD in social media and social responsibility. She's been teaching communication since 2010 and working in the field for more than 10 years. She's head of PR. Art and educational programming at comic con Athens. She joins us from Greece today from Athens. She is the founder of the Athens comics, library, managing co-director of the digital comics, museum, organizer, and curator of several events, exhibitions, conferences, and workshops. And she's also a researcher and teacher across several different universities and courses. A master's level. She's participated in conferences internationally on media, digital media, entrepreneurship, storytelling, so many different things, just reading that, uh, that it makes me wonder what I've been doing with my life, how she's got so much knowledge and wealth of expertise. And it was great to be able to speak to her today. One of those things where I really feel from this episode of just it's really the tip of the iceberg, of Lida's knowledge. But it was great to be able to dip into that today So. absolutely delighted to be joined by Lida today to give us a little bit of an intro into the work that she's been doing in Greece. Here's what Lida had to say. Hello, Lida. Welcome to Comic Boom. Hi, Lucy. Thank you so much for having me today. Oh, it's really exciting to have someone in Greece, live from Greece, to talk to us a little bit about, comics and the comic scene there in Athens. I'm really excited to hear what you've got to say. to start off, can you please tell us a little bit about your journey as a comics reader? So where did the interest in comics as a reader start for you? Well, that's an interesting question and it's, it's very well connected with how comics evolved in Greece. Because when I was growing up, back in the 80s, we had a limited access to certain comics like Disney comics or, the French Belgian comics like, and Lucky Luke. And then some Italian, comics as well. So not much of a variety of choices. And, I remember reading, uh, some of those Italian comics that were inside, a magazine that my brother used to read. and. I found it quite interesting, but my actual interest in, in comics came a little bit later, when I, discovered, the more adult comics, that were printed, uh, here in, uh, in Greece in a magazine called Wawel. Uh, so Wawel was somehow, our Trojan horse, uh, that sneaked the love of comics to not only to me, but, uh, to most of the people of my generation. That's fascinating. So these were, were they comic strips or longer form stories within the magazine? Well, it had both, uh, again, uh, mostly based on, on the Italian, comic scene, but also, you know, some of the, underground, American, comics. So it was, it was like an apocalypse. It's, I mean, because we were very much used to read, the, the comics that. Were not supposed to be addressed to, to adults, but mostly to children. So, you know, finding out that there is a variety of, of types of styles, of, Of different stories that could be told, in that fascinating, uh, way, of the graphic, storytelling really, you know, really blew our minds, uh, away. It, it was really, as I said earlier, an apocalypse not only for me, but for many, uh, people of my generation, here in Greece. Yeah, it's really interesting. I was actually, I was at a conference this weekend and, I was running a session about comics and just being able to show people, I think there's still, a lack of knowledge about just how broad comics are. And I was just showing somebody. Some, graphic novels written by women about sort of graphic medicine or personal memoir, comics, and just really, these kind of really beautiful, slow paced, in depth comics. And they, they'd never seen anything like that before. It was really an eyeopening moment. I could see it was an eyeopening moment for them that they were like, Oh, hadn't realized what comics could be outside of the kind of classic Comics for children, or the kind of superhero genre, which is more prevalent. This is the main reason why, you know, we started the festival and, and the library because in, in Greece, it's, it's the same situation. I mean, we're used either to read, you know, the, the more, children friendly comics. And I mean, and with that, I mean, the Disney, comics. And then. Superhero comics. So anything else, it's, it wasn't because now there is a shift. it wasn't so well known here as well. And what do you think is that for you? I mean, there's so many different forms of storytelling. There's so many different ways to communicate. But what do you think is that? Draws your interest in comics specifically? Yeah. Well, I, I think it's, it's that unique way, uh, that comics. You have to say a story, the combination of, uh, images and words, but also all the other, elements like the balloons, the lettering. and I also like, the pacing, when you are reading a comic and also, I find really interesting, the transitions, uh, between the different scenes and also the fact that you are somehow allowed to interact, uh, with the story while you are reading it. I mean, it's not like you have everything there. You have to, you know, imagine. The sounds, the voices of the characters. You have to, fill in some, gaps between the different, panels and somehow you feel that you participate, in the narrative. Yeah, it's a really active kind of reading experience, isn't it? I completely agree. I would really love to hear a few suggestions of things that you've been reading recently. At the end of the episode, I will ask you to pick one book that's going to be your recommendation. So maybe keep one saved. but what's appealing to you or artists that you are really interested in? Right now, I'm reading, and I have it like in front of me, as we speak. I'm reading, comic that is mostly, a graphic journalism comic. Comic by Gianluca Constantini and Francesca Monocci and, it, it's, it's about, Libia and, what is happening, there. I'm really interested in, in that, type of, of storytelling of how you can document, real stories, like the journalistic, way. So, this is a very, very interesting, uh, book about, you know, uh, the story, of Libya and, They were there, against, Gaddafi, and all the political situation that, they were facing. It's a very, very strong, uh, book, and, I'm also reading it's in Greek, but, but I really liked it because it's, it's again, something, something different for the Greek, uh, scene. It's not like a typical graphic novel. It's an ethnographic, graphic novel. It's, um, it's about, environmental sustainability and, the fight of a certain group of people living in a certain, area of Greece, against, some, efforts, to, alter, the environmental landscape. So, again, it's a very strong comic with, uh, with a lot of messaging of what is happening right now in terms of, how we use the energy, what is happening, with the climate, uh, how connected is all that with, uh, with the politics? How do we, understand, ecological belonging? So, again, I think it's a very interesting, story again, based on real people, on interviews, on, on site, research by the authors. So. Yeah, I really like it. Again, two examples that really show the breadth of what comics can be and pushing outside of maybe the mainstream understanding of what stories can be told in comic form. I love that. You mentioned a little bit earlier, you hinted at the comic scene in Athens evolving over time. I'd love to know a little bit more about that. Can you tell us. What this comic scenes like in Athens at the moment, how it's grown and I guess how you've been involved in the growing of that comic scene. Yeah. So, for now, I, I will say, with confidence that, we are in a very, very good, place as a comics community in Greece. I mean, it's been. Growing the past years, a lot, and this is something that we can tell, from how many new Greek comics we have every, every year, or we can also tell from how many People are coming to the festival are buying comics of how many, new artists, are presenting their work, but also, we can also tell this, from, how the big, the big bookstores have adopted comics and they have dedicated, selves, selling comic books and not only, you know, the, the well known, but also, you know, selections from different, styles and, and types. And also from, the growth of the events around comics that are not only, you know, the big festivals, but also smaller, presentations, um, or signings or, or even, uh, educational programming, around comics. So imagine that when we started the festival back in 2006, we had like, almost. 2000 people attending the festival and now we have 30, 000 people attending the festival. every year we have more than 100 artists presenting their new work. which is, is a very, big, amount, uh, related to the overall, economy of Greece. and apart from our festival, there are other festivals happening in Athens and also in other areas, uh, around Greece, which also shows, you know, the potential, of the community. That sounds incredible, sounds like a thriving, really buzzing scene. I know you're also involved in the Comics Library, so I'm going to go back to the festival side of it a little later on, but can you tell us, I guess I'm really interested In what you think the impact has been of having a comics library specifically rather than just a section of comics in a larger library, but by bundling it together and giving it its own name, do you think that it has had more impact? When we started again, the library, it was, it was like fulfilling, a dream, because, you know, we were visiting other countries and we were very jealous, seeing, you know, other libraries that are dedicated to comics and, we've been very actively involved in, uh, In designing and facilitating educational workshops using, comics and graphic novels. So we really wanted to have, like, a physical space where, you know, people could come meet, mingle, talk about the comics they, they love. But also, we wanted to have a space for our educational, programming. So that was, you know, the main reason, we started the library, but also we wanted to, to answer to a specific challenge that we have in Greece around the role of libraries in general, we're not, you know, a country that we, you know, cherish and celebrate the role of libraries in the community. Most, of the times we use libraries just to go and study. and we wanted also to experiment and see if, a thematic library like that could, you know, could become like a community space for people. And that actually worked and we managed to create a broader community of people who were, engaged and involved with, the library coming from, a variety of, of backgrounds. So we had local populations, we had schools, we also had a lot of refugee and migrant, uh, populations, coming to, to the library. But still, I have to, to admit, that, uh, It didn't go exactly as we had, imagined, and, so now we are in the process of. Reviving somehow the library and finding new ways to make it attractive and more relevant, to what, you know, people are reading or or people are seeking from a place like that. So, we are somehow trying to create a new strategy around on how we can attract more audiences to the library. And what sort of role do teachers, you mentioned schools there, what sort of role do teachers have in that? I'm just gonna read a little bit. There was a bit on the, on the website, that Athens comics library believes in the educational value of comics and therefore designs and implements educational programs for all school levels, as well as seminars for teachers. So I'm really interested, how did your work with teachers, develop in the comics library? Yeah. So, you know, uh, teachers are our second favorite, audience. Uh, the first one of course is children. uh, so when we, engage with, educators, and teachers, When I say educators, I mean people who are, you know, working in the formal and informal education in Greece. It's for us. It's it's amazing because we can see immediately the impact of. using comics and graphic novels in the classroom can, can have. So when we first started going to schools, and that was back in 2008, before the library was, open, we were accepted with a lot of skepticism and a lot of, lots of questions about, the role that comics should have in the classroom and the educational process and the learning process. And that was mainly because most of the teachers were not exposed. As you said earlier to the wider types and styles and genre, of comics. They knew the superheroes. So most of the, most of the questions were about, the questioning was about, the violence, you know, and all that typical, things that, you know, mm-Hmm. Are highlighting when they're seeing, uh, a comic book, and also about the language, used and so on and so forth. But. three or four years later, I can say, and we are very proud of that, that we have managed to get. Um, comics into many, many, many schools, because teachers are now, seeking of new ways of interacting with the students. And also, you know, the, the, the population has changed inside, the classrooms, uh, it has become more, uh, multicultural. So comics is, is, is an amazing. tool to break all barriers, linguistic, cultural, even stereotype, barriers. And I'm very glad that they can see it, uh, this way. And also, they, they can understand that. You know, comics is just another narrative medium, just like, I don't know, cinema or literature that they can use as an educational, tool. So we do have a very good collaboration with, uh, with, with teachers. They come to the library. They follow our seminars. they invite us to, to their school. They come to the library with their We travel a lot also, outside, Athens to deliver, workshops. So, yeah, I can say, and again, I will say that we are very proud, of achieving this. That's really incredible. It's just, it's, it's amazing to be able to start something and then see that shift, and know the impact that you've been able to have. That's, that's brilliant. One of the things that I was really interested to see was that at the comics library, there was also, sessions for very young children, kind of kindergarten age children on comics. And there's a real gap in my knowledge, I think, in terms of what that would look like, because I was, a primary school teacher, got a really good clear idea on, children six to 11 and how they could interact with comics. Got a clear idea, on beyond that in the UK, it would be secondary level education, but that kind of very early age group children, how, how does that work? That kind of interaction with comics pre being able to read, but obviously very keen drawers. What, what did that work look like? So again, that was something that, that came to, you know, our mind as an idea because, early childhood for us, it's, it's really important. And, in Greece, we do lack programming outside school that addresses that particular, age. And I know that most. Of the parents today, you know, they are searching for activities for creative activities for their toddlers, and you can find a lot for children that are, aged from 6 to 12. and above, but there are not too many things to do, for younger, audiences. all the things that you can do are very specific, like, you know, messy play, sensory playing and stuff like that. So. We thought that it would be an interesting idea to, you know, experiment and see how this would work. So, we work a lot with, with comics that do not have words like, uh, silent, comics. and. The interaction mostly is, to ask the children to, to think of, you know, their own story based on, on the images, they see, and then, try to, to put some, few words in some balloons and most of the times they don't put the words, but they draw the words, uh, which is also very, very interesting and, cute. And we also work. A lot with, with the Japanese technique of Kamishibai, which is, uh, like a small, paper theater, where, we have, images, that are processing accompanied by an oral, storytelling, in, in a very sequential, way, just like comics, but, instead of reading, you hear, uh, you're hearing, the story. And then we ask the children again to, to make something that is related to the story, that they have heard. This something might be like, um, you know, a paper cut doll that has to do with it's related to the character or some other kind of craft and all that experience seems to stimulate, the younger audiences. An interest for reading, so after, the sessions, they stay with us and we have some silent books there and silent comics. So they take the comic to their parents and they stay there and they read again the stories and. They see the pictures and most of them are coming back, you know, asking for more recommendations, more suggestions, for their, children. And we do that also with, uh, with schools. Not only with, you know, parents and, uh, their children, but also in, in a more organized, format, for kindergarten, classes. That sounds so brilliant. I was smiling away there. I was really, learning. It was great. things that I'd never considered before and, and ways of approaching it. I'm a, I love a silent comic. I haven't, what was the Japanese term that you used again? Kamishibai. Kamishibai it's, you have a, a portable scene and you put it inside, images, that you can draw. I mean, my colleague draws that images is not, an illustrator, but, you know, basic images and you change. The images and while you're changing those images, you are narrating, the story. It's a very, very old way of storytelling in Japan. For, you know, the Japanese culture, Kamisibai is somehow, the prelude to, uh, to manga. That is so interesting. I'm going to look into that loads. That's really sparked interest in me. Thank you. going to move slightly, move on. That was so fascinating. I don't want to, I kind of want to sit with that, with that knowledge that I've just taken on board for a little while, but I'm going to move on. I'm really interested in the power that you see in comics to convey knowledge because, that's a whole other side of it as well. And I noticed that the titles that you kind of picked out, journalistic titles, ethnographic titles, when you were talking about things that you're reading at the moment, and that, obviously still, it's still in a, in a narrative form, but it is. about the transmission of knowledge, rather than sort of story for story's sake as well. I just wondered, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. Yeah, for me and, you know, for, my team and my colleagues, we, we see comics As a link to other, to other information to stimulate self directed, knowledge. Because storytelling, it's, it's, it's an amazing way of, you know, injecting, uh, knowledge, to people. It's, it works like a Trojan horse where you can sneak whatever message you want, and that message will go, wherever you want it to go. It has the power to explain, difficult concepts. It has the power to create empathy. It has, the power, to help us memorize, information. And of course, It has the power to make us feel well because when we are hearing stories, our body releases oxytocin and dopamine, which are the hormones of, you know, love and happiness. and this is also what is happening when you are reading, uh, a comic book and, uh, because comics are, are a form of, of storytelling. And, um, uh, I will go back and I will say that for us, you know, comics is like a hyperlink. you, you read a comic book and then there are lots of questions coming to, to your mind. I mean, from, the background of the character, to, the places, He or she is traveling, or even, the books, or other references that are made, in a comic book. And I will bring here an example of, of a comic that, most of educators, uh, use and I think they use it globally. And that is Bone by Jeff Smith. Yeah. Popular. Yeah. Uh, so the main character of, Bone, reads Moby Dick in the comic. He's passionate about Moby, Moby Dick. He dreams of being Moby Dick and, you know and experiencing his, adventures. But in the comic, you don't actually read the story of Moby Dick, but the children who. a reading bone, then they have a curiosity to find out who is Moby Dick that their hero is reading. So they go to the library and they ask for Moby Dick. So this is how A comic can convey, uh, knowledge. And another thing that, we have found out through our workshops is the fact that when you are asking the children to become, storytellers, to create their own comics, again, you motivate, you stimulate that curiosity and that, self directed knowledge. Because when you ask someone to create a story, You ask them to do research, so they will do research about, again, the character, the certain period of time that their story is happening, the buildings, the outfits, everything. So, even if you don't use all that information, The knowledge stays with you. And by that, you know, more creative way, apart from, you know, moving from reading and coming to creating your own, Coming, we have also, you know, the opportunity to discuss a lot of things with, children, not only about the specific themes that they are writing about, but also on how we create content today, how responsible we are as content creators, what is happening with fake news and, disinformation, how do we create our sources. So, Again, it's, it's a nice way for, pitching, media literacy, to the children. And because, you know, comics is a multi modal, medium, and we are living in a multi modal, world, you can, you can say a lot about, literacy, and literacy, qualities. But also as, as a tool that, encourages social skills, and soft skills as well, like, collaboration and teamwork. Um, you create the comic. Most of the times you have to, find, solutions to critical, dilemmas, or, as I said earlier, empathy, because when you're reading a comic, you, you're stepping Back and you're entering the world of other people and you can see that there are other realities out there, different from what you are, experiencing, or, by, you know, creating a comic with a colleague, you can break down. A million of stereotypes and I have an example here when we were doing, comics workshop for local and, refugee population. It was a mixed, mixed group of, uh, of children and. There were 2, they were working in pairs and, you know, 1 pair, it was a Greek, child and a child coming from Iran. so they sat down and they started. Discussing about the, the, the main character of, of the comic and the child from the, from Iran, drew a woman, and said, this is, you know, uh, the main character of our story. And, the woman has really. Beautiful hair and she was wearing lipstick and modern, outfit and the child from Greece asked, but this is not the typical, you know, image we have about the women coming from your country, we know that there were other types of clothes, so on and so forth. So a very organic dialogue and conversation, started between those two kids. And they learn so much, for the culture of one another, discussing of how a comic character would look like. so for me, that's, you know, an amazing, example of how we can use, you know, comics for the, for educational, goals and this is only one, example out of millions that I can say. Yeah, yeah, it's so true. A little while ago we had Helen Jones on Academic from England and a lot of her work. looks at children creating comics together and the kind of co creation and I became really interested and that coincided alongside having a lot of pairs of people on the podcast, writer illustrator pairs or writing duos, and I've become really interested in the collaborative side of comics through through that and through hearing people talk and that's just another another story which which brings forward to my mind how powerful that can be and I almost think that co creating stories in comic form it lends itself so much to it because There's something almost easier, it's much easier to work on a drawing together and add to it and change it together, like oh, and now I'm going to put this in the background and change the setting or and then this and build a story around an image than it is if you were writing it because you have to write it linearly if you're writing it down but with an image it seems much easier to kind of grow a story together. I don't know if I'm making sense in what I'm saying, but I definitely think there's something in, in that. the use of image and word together that, that makes that collaboration more possible. I totally agree. When I think of the themes that come through across all the guests that we've had on the podcast, this community aspect of reading and sharing and, you know, Having a group of friends who all like the same characters or comics or, passing comics along through family members or, you know, down the generations even sometimes of when people's first comic experience sometimes they talk about it being, you know, a comic that their parent liked and passed down to them. and you've spoken about community. today as well. you spoke about it earlier, you were involved in the, Comicdom festival. Can you tell us a little bit more about the events and the kind of community, I guess, that's built up around it? Yeah, of course. So this is, this is, you know, the festival that we started back in 2006. Um, we had like the 18th, version, the past May. it's been growing, to become, uh, Like the biggest festival comics festival in Greece right now. Every year we, we try to showcase the variety, of the medium of, of comics and graphic novels. So, the programming has always, on the spotlight, an original art, uh, exhibition. And we were very lucky all those years to have collaborated with amazing artists and organizations. We had the opportunity to bring to Athens and to the Greek audience original art by Charles Schultz, Will Eisner, Herge, and so many other incredible artists. When you see the original artwork, it is so beautiful. I find it so inspiring and just being able to see like the pencil underneath and the edits and the changes yeah, it's, it's amazing. It's amazing, it's. Every time you know I am unpacking an exhibition. You know, I feel like intimidated and, you know, overwhelmed about you know the beauty of, of the art. aids, but also I'm super, you know, scared because this is something very fragile and, you know, I'm trying not to touch it. But yeah, every time is, it's, it's amazing to see, you know, to see the process because most of the people say, okay, it's comics, okay, you take like a, a piece of paper and, you know, a pen and you do some doodles, but when you see an original page, you understand that it's not only doodles. It has a lot of, you know, many layers both in terms of how you tell the story and also how you, you know, deliver, the story in, in an illustrated, format. So we do have the, the original art exhibitions and we also have, always spotlight on, uh, Greek, artists or, a collection of, of Greek artists, We have, international, guests. And again, the past years we try not, you know, to invite the, the big mainstream, names, but mo mostly to handpick guests that, you know, have something interesting to share with the audience audiences. And that might be related with. The way they work, or again, the messaging, they want to convey through their work. For example, this year we had an amazing animator from, from Spain. Who is. Working on animations for human rights, and we did a very interesting workshop with the refugee teenagers who created their own animation on the rights. They believe the human rights. They believe they're very important for them. And then. We do have, a big artist alley, where we host, lots of Greek artists. Were, you know, showing their work. we do have a retailers area with, uh, comic book, uh, stores and bookstores. And then we do have, workshops, panel discussions. screenings, sketch events, a dedicated kids and family zone with, activities for children, sounds incredible, very amazing and vibrant, atmosphere. We do have, of course, a cosplay competition because, you know, cosplay is huge everywhere in Greece as well, But it's, it's, it's amazing how, you know, this community is, is growing, every year. in the past year, we have seen this change in our demographics because he, the children that they were born when we were starting, are now like teenagers, able to, to come to the festival. and have you noticed a wider range of people coming and starting to be involved in the scene, like a broader spectrum? Yeah, of course. Every year, every year that, you know, we see that, see if then we see that, you know, more people are coming and from, you know, totally different backgrounds and demographics. We have like families and, teenagers. We have grandparents bring their Grandchildren, we have almost everything, in the festival, which is, which is very good. Yeah. And for you, of all of those things that you've just spoken about, what are the kind of highlights, what are the things that you most enjoy or is that too difficult to pick? It is, but again, in everything, uh, that we are doing, I think that the, you know, the most amazing thing every time is. When you see the spark in the eyes of a person who, you know, is fascinated by something new, they discover. And that new thing might be a new comic book or, a page from a book. You know, the original art, exhibition or, how amazed they are by themselves, but they manage actually to create their own comic page. I mean, this is something that, I really enjoy, every time I see it. And I'm lucky because I see it often. Yeah, that's amazing. thank you so much for joining us today on podcast. I feel like I could talk to you for hours, but we are nearing the end of the podcast. If you've got a few takeouts or key points that you'd like to leave educate got so much experience in this area. A few key points that you'd like to leave us listeners thinking about. well, read comics. Good one. Yeah. Uh, I mean, add more comics to, you know, to, to your curriculum, to the live, to the libraries, to the educational and learning, processes. Don't be afraid, you know, to make, mistakes when you are trying to create your own, comic, page. Because you know, the, the failure, uh, It gives you also a liberty to become more, creative, enhance the storyteller that you have inside you, um, and, search for and support, the artists who are, you know, uh, offering us these amazing, books. Those is a fantastic set of takeouts. Thank you. I really believe that everyone is, is a storyteller. We do it naturally all the time, which is when we're talking family, friends work with telling stories all the time. But to be able to. Get those down in the form where they can be shared more widely and I think everyone can do that if they just carve out a little bit of space to allow, allow that to happen. so at the end of the podcast, as I alluded to earlier, I asked guests to pick one book, comic or book about comics that we could add to our to be read pile. Now, I think this is going to be a challenge for you, but I'm going to make you do it. Can you tell us one book that we should, we should put onto our list of things to read? One. Okay. Uh, so again, I will share something that, I just finished reading it. And it's, it's, uh, the graphic novel called Dragon Hoops by Gene Lueng Yang. It's about sports, basketball, Failures and wins, because, it's autobiographical. It follows, the story of Gene when he was, a young boy and he wanted to play, basketball, but he never actually managed to, to achieve it. and then he comes back to his own school as a teacher, as a coach, to, to the school basketball, team, and it's, it's a very fascinating story where we can all find, uh, moments where we can engage, And feel close to the main character. It's a book about, optimism and, you know, never giving up, uh, to your dreams. and even if your dreams do not come true. You know, be fulfilled, in the way that you have imagine, you will somehow it will somehow be fulfilled in another, uh, in another way. it's, it's mostly addressed to, you know, teenagers and, young audiences, but I really, uh, really, really enjoyed, reading it. And then of course you are motivated to go out and, you know, play some basketball. So you've started your basketball career. Yeah. that sounds brilliant. I haven't heard of that at all. And I, yeah, I really enjoy, sports, I'm watching sport so I think definitely, that would appeal to me. It's not something that I've bought into, that, that sort of side interest is not something that I've bought into my comics reading much, which is weird. I don't know why I've kept those things separate in my life. So that, this might be a good moment to bring them together. so thank you very much for that recommendation and thank you so much for coming on to the podcast. I've learned loads. I found it really fascinating. So Thank you for coming on. Just, I know it's just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the knowledge that you've got, but it's been a brilliant, starting point to learn from you today. So thank you. so much for the opportunity to, to share and, and discuss and keep up the good work. The podcast is amazing. Well, thank you. They have it great to speak to Lida and learn all about the work that's going on there and Athens to promote comics and the impact that it's had. After dedicating so many years to it, it must be so satisfying to be able to see that. really building up ahead of steam, the growth, the number of people, the variety, the diversity of people coming to those events. the number of new comics being produced it all points to a really strong and exciting culture that's been been developed by all of the work going on in Athens. So huge. Congratulations to Lida for that. And thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing. A different perspective. It's great to be able to hear what's going on in other countries. And I was absolutely fascinated. By some of the things you said it's especially around how to involve, children in kindergarten, preschool, age children in the comics world and in storytelling with images. And I just, yeah, I found that really fascinating, really leaned into so many of the things that I've been thinking about recently. and gave me more avenues to explore. So thank you Lida that has been brilliant. An interesting pick I thought I would follow on from Lida's pick, with a sporting type, graphic novel that I did, although I said in that episode that I haven't really bought those Two elements of my life together, sports and graphic novels. I have got one. And this one I picked, um, a few years ago, I did a virtual London marathon for national literacy trust to raise money. And I did a bookshop marathon. So I made a route running around as many indie bookshops as I could in London whilst doing the marathon distance. And I stopped and bought books as I went and I stopped off at gosh comics. Of course I did have to stop at Gosh comics in London. And, I bought, a running themed graphic novel. by Jan Novak and Jaromir 99, Zatopek the tagline is when you can't keep going and go faster. So this has got to pick this up about halfway. So there's about half marathon distance at this point. It's a powerful biographical portrait set against the backdrop of the cold war. Czech creators Jan Novak and Jaromir 99 explore the extraordinary career of a Peerless distance runner from his first meeting with his wife, fellow Olympian, Dana to the record breaking victories that would ensure his lasting legacy. The illustrations are done in a woodcut style is really graphic, limited color palette for colors. Really, really. Interesting. way that they always been created. And a great story, and I love that it's a biography as well. So that's my recommendation for this week linking, into the sports theme that Lida started off there. thank you so much for listening. As you know, this season of comic boom is sponsored by ALCS, the authors licensing and collecting society. I have been highlighting some resources each week, so do check out those on previous episodes if you haven't, but I'm not going to do that this week because in the next episode of comic, boom, we'll have a little mini section at the end where we get to talk to Barbara Hayes, who is CEO of ALCS, and it was really interesting conversation. Really pertinent thinking about. The impact of AI, which I know is such a hot topic among, writers and illustrators, a lot of concerns around how to protect their rights in this technology. Really interesting conversation with Barbara about ALCSs work in that area and more generally. So there'll be a nice little section at the end of the main interview of the podcast. So keep listening for that one next week. As a way as you can keep in touch with the podcast by following me on Twitter or X, which is at, at Lucy underscore Bradley by following the podcast on Instagram at comic underscore boom underscore podcast, you can also just message us directly through the podcast website. each episode has a message, the podcast creator section, where you can put a message in. We also love to see reviews, right? Those five star reviews share with your colleagues and your friends and your networks, because it's always great to have a personal recommendation for a podcast. I always really appreciate when people recommend a podcast to me. So that is a definite thing that, we would really appreciate you doing. That's it for me today, you've been listening to Comic Boom, which is hosted and produced by me, Lucy Starbuck Braidley, thanks for listening.